Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/CGram Software


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Is notable although additional sourcing would be helpful JodyBtalk 14:31, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

CGram Software

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Promotion for non-notable company, article by single-purpose user. I could not find any significant third-party coverage. Haakon (talk) 15:25, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:57, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 22:57, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wales-related deletion discussions.  -- Pcap  ping  00:24, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Leaning delete. There are a few Wales newspaper and magazine stories, e.g. , and it won some awards, but they seem pretty obscure business awards with a limited geographic participation. Not sure about the Accountancy Age award nomination; this has wider area or participation (whole UK), but it didn't win there. Willing to reconsider if additional evidence is brought. Pcap  ping  00:31, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment Linux User and Developer whose award they won is not obscure or with a limited geographic participation but is UK wide. They had nominations for both Computing (magazine) and Accountancy Age awards both of which are UK wide.Vrenator (talk) 09:21, 25 February 2010 (UTC) (creator of page)


 * Weak Keep. Not the most brilliant claim to notability, but I'd say the award from Linux User and Developer sways it in favour, as LUD has a reasonably high circulation. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 10:32, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I found two other uses of Cgram. Neither appear related to the company: Cgram, the ANSI C grammar by Mohd Hanafiah Abdullah from Indiana. CGRAM stands for character generator RAM. Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 14:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm not turning up good online sources, but 1980's activity with "early Unix manufacturing systems" could be expanded on. Short reference via Google Books in Mini-micro systems, V.16, p116, 1983, "Cgram Software, Swansea, Wales, provides a manufacturing system also written in c". Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 14:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete lacks significant coverage, the award is nice but not enough to demonstrate notability RadioFan (talk) 16:12, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep I am not really a Wiki person so I hestitated to update this page previously, but as it is listed for deletion I have.


 * This is a long established Software Authoring company and such companies are quite uncommon. I used to work with them in the 80's and 90's.  Back in the 80's it was well known in the early commercial development of UNIX, along with many other companies no longer in existence and not documented anywhere on the web. They produced the first UNIX Manufacturing System at a time when the computer industry saw UNIX as a toy for academics, they implemented Supplier chain control at Ikeda Hoover and this was for many years referenced as a model in the Standard UK Accountancy textbooks. This was extended to an innovative Kanban supply system in 1990.  In 1997 they installed what I believe was the first commercial Linux system in the UK (at Meddings Machine Tools).  In 1998 they introduced one of the first commercial systems with a front end written entirely in Java/Swing.


 * There is a general problem with things that happened in IT before before the web gained momentum, online references are sparse and this important chunk of IT history seems to be in the process of being lost. Wikipedia is currently the only useful source of most commercial history generally and it is an area which there are compelling reasons to expand, not shrink. If you look up the companies that were instrumental in making UNIX popular, providing the spring board for Linux, there is almost no imformation on them. It might make a useful Wiki Project.


 * The award and nominations are a reason to keep the page, but the history of innovation is more important. Some of the users recommending delete think the award is insignificant and being from Wales they cannot be significant.  Wales ?  Ring any bells ? JamesOfBerkhamstead (talk) 13:28, 24 February 2010 (UTC) — JamesOfBerkhamstead (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep Notability is demonstrated in the awards but even more so in the early history showing that they were pioneers in the IT field. I've tried to change the article so that this comes across better and that it not merely to promote a company. Vrenator (talk) 09:28, 25 February 2010 (UTC)(creator of page) — Vrenator (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment The notability of these awards need to be established and any claims of being "pioneers" also need to be corroborated with 3rd party sources.--RadioFan (talk) 10:01, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment See Note already posted above: "Linux User and Developer whose award they won is not obscure or with a limited geographic participation but is UK wide. They had nominations for both Computing (magazine) and Accountancy Age awards both of which are UK wide."
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.