Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/COVID-19 pandemic deaths in July 2021


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  07:14, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

COVID-19 pandemic deaths in July 2021

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Article that gives the cumulative number of deaths per country for each day in July. A single source is given, which links to an index page of WHO. None of the figures given in the article are on this page, which simply links to over 250 reports. The article therefore fails WP:VERIFY. The WHO index page lists daily reports to August 2020, and then weekly reports since then. The weekly reports don't seem to give a daily breakdown, so I'm not sure where the individual days figures come from. The creator presumably recognises the referencing issues as they created the article with a more citations needed tag.

The article consists mainly of two very large tables which are impossible to follow on a mobile. The information for each country is contained in a much more concise way in the individual country's pages, such as COVID-19 pandemic in the United States and also duplicates the overview in COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country. WP:NOTDATABASE may also be applicable here. John B123 (talk) 19:10, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * User:Anguswalker‎ usually copies the top part of the page each time he starts a new monthly page. That includes the more citations needed tag. I assume he doesn't remove it because someone will just add it back, and he has more important things to do. I haven't seen anyone explain their reasoning for the tag on the monthly talk pages. I see this tag-cruft on many pages, and often don't see explanations on the talk page. And I don't have time to hunt down the adders to get their reasoning. I have better things to do. --Timeshifter (talk) 07:18, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Also nominating the following related pages because of the below comments:


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. John B123 (talk) 19:10, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Health and fitness-related deletion discussions. John B123 (talk) 19:10, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Biology-related deletion discussions. John B123 (talk) 19:10, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of COVID-19-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:29, 26 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete - current sourcing does not pass WP:VERIFY, and as per WP:ISNOT.  Onel 5969  TT me 21:26, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Question this article is one of a series detailing COVID-19 deaths by month. Should we not be considering these all as a group rather than just this one article - any argument to delete this article would surely apply to all of these? I personally think these all fall under WP:NOSTATS and would be happy to see them all deleted. Would the nom be happy to add all of these to this AfD? Vladimir.copic (talk) 00:15, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , if John B123 has no issue, I can add them.  Onel 5969  TT me 01:38, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * That seems logical to me. --John B123 (talk) 05:48, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. Besides the WP:V issues, we could also look at this from the angle of "does the topic of July 2021 COVID death counts" pass WP:GNG? I wonder if such a narrow topic does. It certainly does not with current sourcing. – Novem Linguae (talk) 02:35, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notability is obvious since it is COVID-19 data that is constantly reported in the media. This COVID-19 info is invaluable, because it is difficult to find in this monthly table form. Many other table lists on Wikipedia of all kinds are notable. Sourcing is from World Health Organization (WHO). How much better than that can you get? The monthly pages get around a hundred views a day during the month it is being filled in. See those numbers via the page views banner at the top of the talk page: Talk:COVID-19 pandemic deaths in August 2021. The overall page at COVID-19 pandemic deaths that links to those monthly pages gets around 700 page views per day lately. The first of the month data from those monthly pages is used to compile this important and notable template: Template:Monthly cumulative COVID-19 death totals by country 2021. It is found on this page: COVID-19 pandemic by country and territory. That page gets around 13,000 views per day lately. People come for the tables and maps. The creator of the monthly pages is User:Anguswalker. He has been thanked by some Wikimedia Foundation staff for his great and tireless work. People and news media from around the world come to all these Covid data pages. As I said, notability is obvious. --Timeshifter (talk) 06:34, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I have to point to a couple of guidelines: WP:POPULARPAGE, WP:NOTDATABASE, WP:NOTNEWS. Honestly people will be dying of/with COVID-19 for the rest of my life most likely - do we seriously intend to have these pages created forever WP:NTEMP. This kind of data can be easily taken care of - in a simplified form - on one page. Can't people go to the WHO page rather than an encyclopaedia (which just reproduces it) for this kind of granular detail? This just seems to take the WP:NOTPAPER ethos way too far. Vladimir.copic (talk) 07:53, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * If the page had this reference, which is where the figures come from, would that solve the problem? https://covid19.who.int/WHO-COVID-19-global-data.csv Anguswalker (talk) 09:33, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The daily WHO data by country is also found here:
 * https://covid19.who.int/table - click the "data table" tab. Wait for it to load.
 * The Internet Archive has the previous days:
 * https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://covid19.who.int/table
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 10:51, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Searching the Internet Archive isn't a valid way of referencing. Beside that, not every day is archived. For the period of this article, July 2021, the Internet Archive doesn't have captures for the 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 10, 12, 16, 18, 19 and 21st. --John B123 (talk) 13:08, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * OK. Then it is a supplemental way of referencing for those who want to look up some data without having to use a spreadsheet. The WHO .csv link that User:Anguswalker provided has all the days for all the countries. I just checked in freeware LibreOffice Calc. See:
 * https://covid19.who.int/WHO-COVID-19-global-data.csv
 * It is found in the "Data Download" section of this WHO page:
 * https://covid19.who.int/info
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 15:40, 27 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete this page and all like it for reasons of (1) current referencing failing WP:V, (2) page is barely usable on a laptop PC, not at all on a mobile phone (and there are other accessibility problems, but those could be fixed), and (3) per WP:NOTEVERYTHING and WP:INDISCRIMINATE, we don't need to reproduce this kind of minutiae; we should let the WHO maintain WHO's data (including corrections and adjustments) instead of trying to mirror them here. I know we were all breathless (pun not intended but, aw, what the hell) to collate and present the relevant info when the pandemic was suddenly hitting us hard over a year ago, but now the mass of numbers for every single day in every single country is (sorry, here I go again) overkill. &mdash; JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 08:40, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * This data does not exist in this easily accessible form anywhere else authoritative on the web. I haven't found anything as easy to access. It also is part of the history of the pandemic.
 * I agree that the daily data is no longer needed. Weekly is what I prefer. We are still in the middle of a once in a century pandemic, and waiting 2 weeks for more data is too long. Readers would be happy with weekly data. I can easily use the visual editor to delete all columns except those for the 1st, 8th, 15th, and 22st day of the month. This would solve the mobile problem too.
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 12:09, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Comment. Over 1100 English Wikipedia articles link to COVID-19 pandemic deaths. See link count in article space: I think the history of Covid-19 is lacking without some breakdown of the monthly death data. Wikipedia is the only place that makes that breakdown so easily accessible. I can convert all the monthly tables to using only weekly data. It would only take me a few minutes with Visual Editor. --Timeshifter (talk) 16:07, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * https://linkcount.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&page=COVID-19%20pandemic%20deaths&namespaces=0
 * Special:WhatLinksHere/COVID-19 pandemic deaths

Comment. The references have been updated on all of the monthly death pages. See them listed here: --Timeshifter (talk) 17:21, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Category:Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic
 * Delete for this article and other month’s articles per WP:NOSTATS, WP:NOTEVERYTHING and WP:NOTMIRROR. I acknowledge the work put into this by editors but am not convinced by their keep arguments as they seem fall into WP:MERCY. This data is available on the WHO site and it is not the point of Wikipedia to replicate it. Even though arguments have been made that this page makes the data easy to view, I find it still quite hard to view and there is little explanation of the raw data in the article. Vladimir.copic (talk) 04:11, 29 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Data buried in a .csv file at the WHO site is hardly accessible to the average reader looking for this history of a once in a century pandemic.
 * The July 2021 table is now easier to view. There are now only 5 date columns. Per previous discussion here above. And the table is now in alphabetical order since numerical order changes over the month. I also added row numbers. Click on any date header to sort in ascending or descending order for that date. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:59, 30 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:DELREASON: Any other content not suitable for an encyclopedia, specifically WP:NOTSTATS. This is a prime example of Excessive listings of unexplained statistics. TompaDompa (talk) 18:45, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The statistics are explained in the article intro. They are COVID-19 deaths over time. From WP:NOTSTATS (emphasis added): "Excessive listings of unexplained statistics. Statistics that lack context or explanation can reduce readability and may be confusing; accordingly, statistics should be placed in tables to enhance readability, and articles with statistics should include explanatory text providing context. Where statistics are so lengthy as to impede the readability of the article, the statistics can be split into a separate article and summarized in the main article."
 * The main article summarizes the deaths: COVID-19 pandemic deaths. The statistics are split into separate articles. The pandemic is still killing many people worldwide. See graph of daily deaths per million people worldwide. So the current statistics are very notable. Some day Covid will fade away enough that we won't need weekly statistics. That day is not now.
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 01:09, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Comment. I would like to put 4 monthly reports on each page. So the 3 pages for 2021 would be: The table of contents for the Jan-Apr 2021 page would be: Each month would consist of 5 columns a week apart on these days: '''1. 8. 15. 22. 29. It would be easy to scroll through on a cell phone.''' --Timeshifter (talk) 03:25, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
 * COVID-19 pandemic deaths by country Jan-Apr 2021
 * COVID-19 pandemic deaths by country May-Aug 2021
 * COVID-19 pandemic deaths by country Sep-Dec 2021
 * January 2021
 * February 2021
 * March 2021
 * April 2021

Comment. I have not found tables of cumulative deaths over time anywhere else. Here are 2 major lists of COVID-19 data sources to verify this: So far all I have found is daily stuff. None of it compiled in tables over time. --Timeshifter (talk) 07:10, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19
 * https://github.com/owid/covid-19-data/tree/master/public/data
 * Perhaps that indicates that people don't think that presenting the statistics in this format serves any useful purpose. --John B123 (talk) 20:28, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Why do others need to recreate what has been at Wikipedia for a long time? I created a related article last year in July 2020:
 * COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country
 * See the deletion discussion:
 * Articles for deletion/COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country
 * These monthly articles started in October 2020 by ‎ are extensions of that.
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 23:31, 2 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.