Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caitlin Crosby


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. While consensus is marginal, the keep opinions (including one non-!vote "comment"...) present a strong case. Owen&times; &#9742;  13:11, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Caitlin Crosby

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Delete. Notability not established in accordance with WP:GNG, WP:ENT, or WP:MUSICBIO. Acting background limited to minor roles. Released one album on nonnotable label. Did not chart.  Cind. amuse  15:46, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. According to imdb (as quoted in the article), she had at least recurring roles in two TV series. With her additional activities in music (and some not too bad co-writing credits!) notability seems to be established based on WP:MUSICBIO (although the article should probably be improved to reference further of the many sources Gnews will come up with). 132.195.109.67 (talk) 13:17, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. Can you please be specific and detail how the subject meets the criteria presented at WP:MUSICBIO? Please note that IMDb cannot be used to establish notability. In order to meet Wikipedia's standards for verifiability and notability, the article in question must actually document that the criterion is true. It is not enough to make vague claims in the article or assert a band's importance on a talk page or AfD page – the article itself must document notability through independent and reliable sources. At this point, the article is lacking in this area.  Cind. amuse  18:14, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment – I also do not see anything that supports WP:MUSICBIO or any other form of WP:N.  ttonyb  (talk) 20:46, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete – Non-notable individual lacking GHits and GNEWS of substance. Fails WP:ENT.  ttonyb  (talk) 14:01, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:31, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:32, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, joe deckertalk to me 18:15, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete, all IMDB shows is a few recurring bit part roles in Living with Fran and Strong Medicine. I don't see how that helps her meet WP:ENTERTAINER.  The music career claims are dealt with well above.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 08:07, 23 April 2011 (UTC).
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Comment I have relisted this discussion on procedural grounds, the history of the article up for deletion appears to show that a notice was never placed on the article. --joe deckertalk to me 18:16, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep I had no difficulty finding independent coverage of her. The issue is that the article is not very good.--Toddy1 (talk) 18:32, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment I'll refrain from !voting, as I've taken an administrative action on this nomination (relisting), but I will note some, , , articles which, in addition to others available, could be used along with those already present in the article as arguments towards notability under WP:GNG. --joe deckertalk to me 18:58, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. You're funny. You state that you'll refrain from !voting, yet provide a rationale for keeping the article, along with additional sourcing. I would say that you did a good job of providing an appropriate "not a !vote". ;)  Cind. amuse  23:34, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment It's a fine line, when closing AfDs I'm perfectly happy to ignore "weight", if you will, of opinions of editors who ask me to do so, this is not an uncommon situation in nominations. But the comments do have an effect to the extent that they influence other editor's assessments. Perhaps too fine a line.  :)  Glad you are (I think) amused.  :)  --joe deckertalk to me 23:44, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. Truly and sincerely amused. Got a chuckle and a smile. It's all good. ;)  Cind. amuse  07:24, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * :) --joe deckertalk to me 17:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. Like Toddy1 and Joe Decker, I quickly found assorted articles about her (in addition to those previously noted, here's one from Billboard); these lead me to conclude that she passes WP:GNG.--Arxiloxos (talk) 21:47, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. Please note that recommendations after April 22 have been made based on a vandalized version of the article, since restored. That said, while the mtv.com content is not independent of the subject and is a duplicate of the allmusic.com reference, it it my opinion that sufficient sourcing has been found to support notability according to the general notability guidelines.  Cind. amuse  23:22, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment From the first source joe decker noted (mtv - ): "Although she continued to appear in films (including the Danny DeVito movie No Place Like Home, for which she played the lead role)...". I'm unable to find a movie of Danny DeVito called No Place Like Home which she is the lead, I guess it was the working title of House Broken but she is not the lead on that movie either ( - Starring: Danny DeVito, Katey Sagal, Supporting actors: Tom Wilson, Ryan Hansen, Skyler Stone). You have already noted that this mtv page is copied from the allmusic reference (the first and one of the three references on the page), making both of them unreliable sources. Nimuaq (talk) 00:21, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Some editors seem determined to remove well cited information about her being Zachary Levi's girlfriend at one time. The reason given is that in the opinion of those editors this is just "fancruft". That she was Mr Levi's girlfriend was why proper news sources bothered to produce stories about her. The career route of being known as someone's wife/daughter/girlfriend and trying to use this to become known in one's own right is actually quite common in the entertainment industry.--Toddy1 (talk) 19:07, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment – It may be a career route in the entertainment industry, but because notability is not inherited in Wikipedia, it is no more than fancruft in the article.  ttonyb (talk) 20:32, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Baseball   Watcher  22:55, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sumsum2010 · T · C  04:17, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Keb25 (talk) 21:52, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Keep per Arxiloxos.--Milowent • talkblp-r 16:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - passes WP:MUSICBIO. --BabbaQ (talk) 15:31, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - interviews with her in billboard, baeblemusic (a video interview), and articles about her split with an actor that made it clear they were considered one of the "big celebrity splits" (this is not terminology gossip magazines use about couples where only one is a celebrity - it only is used for couples where both are celebrities). Whether she became a celebrity by using her celebrity connections is even a subject of the billboard article.  Successfully doing so makes one notable, this is not a case of "inherited" notability but of notability that is boosted by connections to other notable people. (For actual cases of apparently inheriting notability, take a look at Chelsea Clinton's article, or Bristol Palin's?) Felisse (talk) 07:49, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.