Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calyr Elves Church


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Delete. Non-notable. El_C 10:36, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Calyr Elves Church
A version of this article was deleted on 19 March, 2006; see Articles for deletion/Calyr Elvin Church. While clearly an interesting religion now claiming several dozen adherents, it still the article does not seem to contain verifiable information on its notability. Nothing personal. Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 10:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete the unique googles run at a rate of under one per church member. Guy 13:43, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep it is a good example of otherkin culture. Gurvon 14:42, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello, I am the author of the article. Thank you for your interest, and I would like to address your concerns. I am curious about what it would take to verify the information in this link. I, along with a couple of others, wrote the original “Way of the Calyr” in the 1990’s. (I was the main contributor, and the copyright to the book is in my name.) We put the website up this year.

On the Otherkin.net site, (the largest otherkin site) the Calyr Church is listed as the fourth most popular link, even though it is fairly new. The Silver Elves, whom you have had an article about for a couple of years now, has listed the Calyr Church website as one of their special links (they only have around 8 or so, so they aren’t link mills). The Open Directory Project has deemed it worthy of inclusion in their list of religions.

I’m wondering what would warrant inclusion in your site, and whether I would be able to accomplish that to your satisfaction. Could you let me know what the specific problem is? Perhaps if you could explain why articles like the Silver Elves are acceptable, I would be able to update this article to conform to your specifications.

I have checked out quite a few of the new religions in your links, and there are several that I must admit, I am scratching my head to try to figure out why their links are not targetted for deletion if the Calyr Elves Church is. Please don’t take that the wrong way. I have to admit this is a learning process for me, so I would welcome your instruction. Sincere thanks, Freedomelf Freedomelf 15:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I would like to add that the Way of the Calyr is being translated into Dutch on a totally independent site. In addition, it is set for re-publication in book form in early 2007. (A few copies were printed privately in 1998, but it will now be published commercially.)

Lupa, writer of "Fang and Fur, Blood and Bone" which is listed on Amazon and published by Immanion Press, has expressed interest in the religion and is including it in her next book about otherkin, targetted for completion this year. Considering the Calyr website is only a few months old and has generated no paid advertising of any kind, I believe it has achieved greater than expected interest.

Many otherkin have expressed relief at finally having a faith which relates to their spiritual needs. The Calyr Elves Church is the only organized religion for Elven otherkin. Without it, there is no way for them to address their spiritual needs at present. (And please note, we are the only religion that actually discourages donations on the website. We aren't in this for the money, but rather for the passion of our beliefs and to help Elven otherkin.)

I sincerely appreciate your equity in giving this topic due thought. Thank you! Freedomelf 18:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Church for otherkin? Wow. Delete per lack of verifiability and lack of notability. See WP:V for a start on the need for reliable outside sources, et al. Tony Fox (arf!) 19:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Maybe in another year, if the events User:Freedomelf mentions do indeed come to pass, there might be proper sources for the article. Till then, it should be deleted. wikipediatrix 23:12, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete It should not come back until it passes the policy on verifiability using independent reliable sources. The creator should probably draft the article in userspace, then use the deletion review process.  GRBerry 01:40, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete nn "church" - a couple dozen members doesn't make a group notable or every chess club and sewing circle could qualify. When they have done something notable like raise the dead or pull a Heaven's Gate, then they've achieved notability. Carlossuarez46 20:13, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete nn. Mukadderat 00:21, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.