Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Camilia Shehata Zakher


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 19:29, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Camilia Shehata Zakher

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WP:BLP1E, dubious sources, horribly POV Jayjg (talk) 18:30, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment POV can be fixed. The sources that I looked at were in Arabic, but al Arabiya is not usually called a "dubious" source. One that I looked at appeared to be a blog post. I agree that the article is terribly written, so much so that I often couldn't get the point of a sentence or paragraph, or at least I was unsure that what I grasped was what was being intended.  Please could you be more explicit about "dubious sources"? Camilia Shehata Zakher does appear to be newsworthy, whether she rises to Wikipedia notability stabdards or not should be discussed.  At present, I am inclined to keep this and mark it for clean-up, but I reserve any vote until those who read arabic fluently can check out the sources. As it is current written, it is quite vague on facts, I would like to know who the Egyptian security forces were, who "christian Pope shenouda" is, and why the story of the reasons behind the failure of her "application" to be recognized as Muslim smells so fishy. --Bejnar (talk) 21:54, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

The story of Camilia Shehata Zakher has been reported daily in the press and featured in Al Jazeera as well as covered in BBC Arabic. As it is an unfolding story the complete impact is not yet known, already the story has polarized the country and produced 7 major demonstrations in an otherwise peaceful country, historically not known for protests. Demonstrations have included a protest of 20,000 people with at least 2 more planned. It is noteworthy becasue it is a landmark case that has crystalized a 5 year long stifled debate on the powers of the church within the state, most recent episode being the overturning of the supreme courts decision to allow remarriage after divorce to christians, a law that was shockingly reversed by pressure from shenouda. The debate involves the Egyptian constitution which gurantees basic rights of freedom of faith to sane adults and freedom from unlawful detention. Therefore the story's magnitude is because of its simplicity. Camilia's story has been reported throughout the region's newspapers with the case pending hearings in Egyptian courts as well as international hearings including the United Nations. A petition of 200 noteworthy scholars has been sent to the President of Egypt.

The sources quoted are all verifiable Egyptian or regional media (Al Arabiya) in addition to the website of the same name holding the archive of articles, videos, interviews, photos, documents and comments plus a website specialized in following these incidents that broke the origninal story; where the crucial key witness interview is displayed (quoted in all the media following the story).

The Egyptian security forces mentioned are the State Security the the branch of police with widest powers and are only involved in matters of national security. pope shenouda is the head of the Egyptian orthodox church and has a documented history of creating national security concerns for Egypt by stirring interfactional conflict causing his isolation from office by the President of Egypt.

The reasons behind the failure of Camilia's application to be muslim is precisly why there is unrest in Egypt today. Media and political analysts have commented on a number of environmental factors. The current power vacuum. The intention to inherit power as in neighbouring Syria. The prescence of foreign troops. The declared support for inheritance of power by the church. The connection of the church to US congress and billions of foreign special interest dollars. that has weakend the governments resolve for confrontation.

Camilia is seen as a significant symbol of an important phase in Egypt's history that starkly outlines a nation's current political position. It has been titled editorially in many media as the "uncoverer" which translates as the story that reveals everyones real position. It has uncovered the foreign and local women's rights organizations that have been very vocal on many issues of freedom of dress and style yet have remained strangely silent on freedom of faith and freedom from detention, it has uncovered the government's deal with the church to inherit power in return for unconstitutional authority to detain people, it has uncovered the militant position of the church who have been caught stockpiling weapons from Israel and are evading responses to formal chanrges of murder on national television, it has uncovered the dependance of the majority's religious institutes who favoured the state over their own responsibility , it has uncovered the police who have unlawfully delivered citizens and are silent on the continuing detention and abduction of others. It has uncovered the judiciary represented by the public prosecutor have buried multiple public claims for investigations by dozens of lawyers. It has shed light on the billions of special interest dollars of a. It has uncovered, in Al Jazeera, the report to congress on Egypt by Frank Wolfe, who previously had led the filing of motions on Sudan in preparation for dividing the country and the role of shenoda's lawyer in the report.

The most recent report is a letter in Kamilia's handwriting with her proclamation of Muslim faith that had to be smuggled out to media as well as the news that the majority Muslim leader has met with Kamilia to pressure her to appear and lie about her faith for national securtiy. Kamiliashehata (talk) 02:21, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment, leaning to delete. I'm not yet persuaded this subject merits a standalone article, as Wikipedia is not the news and notability is not temporary, whereas I suspect the notoriety of this person and event are likely to prove ephemeral. Nevertheless, there are some English-language sources on the topic if someone wants to improve the article: ,,,,,,. I agree the present state of the article is appalling, and it if can't be sufficiently improved, deleting it it certainly better than leaving it in its present state. Wikipedia doesn't exist to spread the word about some purported injustice. -- Rrburke (talk) 18:38, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Egypt-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:30, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:31, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment.Improving the article is fixable. Can you be more specific by what you mean the event is "ephemeral". A simlar event 5 years ago of Wafaa Constanine is still discussed today hardly, you can hardly call that "ephemeral". The Arabic entry has not had this response, I recommend an Arabic editor review. Kamiliashehata (talk) 16:08, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Comment: Event has sparked fears of civil war The summary below describes how the latest event of Kamilia Shehata Zakher maybe the tipping point into civil war (the latest in the series of abductions and detentions of christians declaring Islam as a faith, Camilia Shehata Zakher). On 15 September in the "Without Borders" program of Al Jazeera hosted Dr. Mohammed Salim Al Awa fromer of the International Union for Muslim Scholars and head of the Egyptian Association for Culture and Dialogue. Dr. Mohammed warned of a sectarian war that was being promoted by comments the day before from Bishop Bishoy, second person in the church that gave inflammatory statements. bishoy had said Muslims are guests in Egypt and he said they are ready for martyrdom should someone interfere and that they had the right to keep Wafaa Constantine, Kamilia Shehata and the others. Dr. Al-Awa commented on how the leadership of a 4% minority is inflamming the country for political end. Dr. Al-Awa warned of the church's plan to start a war in order to divide the country as in Sudan. Dr. Al-Awa spoke sadly that he was disappointed the last ship carrying guns from Israel was confiscated from the son of the bishop whom he had been a childhood friend; and that there are weapon stockpiles in the monastries. Dr. Al-Awa concluded that those walking down the road of sectarian violence are mad and urged the sane among the 4% minority christians to correct their position before the country is burned by war. Reggala (talk) 21:37, 16 September 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm against deletion of this article she is a very famous women now the church of Egypt is prison her because she convert to Islam, her issue is the issue of the public opinion in Egypt and The story of Camilia Shehata Zakher has been reported daily in the press and featured in Al Jazeera as well as covered in BBC Arabic. --Heshamdiab116 (talk) 11:00, 18 September 2010 (UTC)