Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cardinals–Dodgers rivalry


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Joyous! | Talk 10:12, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Cardinals–Dodgers rivalry

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This "rivalry" fails WP:V. Just because they are two of the oldest teams in the National League and have faced each other in the postseason doesn't make it a "rivalry". Reliable sources do not verify that it is a rivalry, other than "tbonesbaseball.com" and one ESPN.com blog post. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 19:14, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: California and Missouri.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:48, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment - I haven't searched for specific sources, but the article itself is incomplete as is this nomination. There was certainly a rivalry between the Cardinals and Dodgers in the 1940s, when the Dodgers and Cardinals went to the World Series 7 times between them, and of the 4 Cardinal pennants the Dodgers finished a close 2nd twice, and of the 3 Dodger pennants the Cardinals finished 2nd each time (one by a single game and at most by 5 games).  Not only that, but the Dodgers general manager at the time was the Cardinals' former GM, plus the Cardinals were among the most notorious teams in taunting Jackie Robinson.  There was also some degree of rivalry in the 1960s, when the Dodgers with Koufax, the Cardinals with Gibson and the Giants with Marichal were generally in the mix for the NL pennant. Rlendog (talk) 15:12, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - I found sources explicitly referring to a Cardinals-Dodgers rivalry: In 1946 this article refers to a Cardinals-Dodgers rivalry that has been going on for 6 years; this article from 1950 refers to the year in year out Cards-Dodgers rivalry now being at an end; this article from 1958 compares a basketball rivalry to the "old Cardinals-Dodgers rivalry in baseball"; here is a recent refernce to the rivalry "over the decades"; here is an article from 1992 referencing that this rivalry "is considerably more storied and traditional" than the then current Mets-Cards rivalry; here is an article referencing that the rivalry extends to the teams' minor league systems; here is an article stating that the Cards-Dodgers rivalry was "most ferocious" from 1941 to 1949; here is an article referencing a more recent iteration of the rivalry; here is a little article noting that radio listening figures demonstrate how intense this rivalry is; here is another rather oddball reference; here is an article referring to this as a "all-time National League rivalry"; this article refers to it as a "long-standing rivalry"; and there are many more.Rlendog (talk) 15:46, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep the article in its current form is a vast improvement from the state it was in prior to the AFD. Thanks User:Rlendog for finding and providing appropriate sources.  Frank   Anchor  17:19, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I do see that this article has improved since I nominated it, but I still don't see evidence of a "rivalry" that goes beyond two teams playing against each other for a significant amount of time. The above Newspapers.com articles make throwaway references – Muboshgu (talk) 20:52, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Multiple newspapers over many years referred to this as a rivalry. Those are hardly "throwaway references".  They were referring to a situation that they were currently aware of - that the Cardinals and Dodgers had a rivalry.  Not to mention the more contemporary sources that recognize this as a rivalry. Rlendog (talk) 16:11, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * I skimmed through Leo Durocher's autobiography and found him referencing the Cardinals as explicitly being the Dodger's rivals - and he was in about as good a position to know whether this was a "rivalry" as anyone - certainly better than us 65 years later. He also has some interesting stories related to the bad blood between the teams that may be relevant to add when I get a chance, although possibly UNDUE.Rlendog (talk) 02:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep Thanks to the additional sources added since the article was nominated. MrsSnoozyTurtle 10:05, 7 February 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.