Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caridee English


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was train wreck. As has been expressed by many, many people here, nothing good is going to come from this nomination. This closure is not a judgement for or against any one article, please re-list seperately where appropriate. Can&#39;t sleep, clown will eat me 19:31, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Caridee English
Reality TV show cruft, not notable outside TV show. MER-C 10:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Also nominated for the same reason are:


 * 1) Nnenna Agba
 * 2) Sara Albert
 * 3) Catie Anderson
 * 4) Ashley Black
 * 5) Heather Blumberg
 * 6) Nicole Borud
 * 7) Anna Bradfield
 * 8) Furonda Brasfield
 * 9) Brittany Brower
 * 10) Tessa Carlson
 * 11) Jenascia Chakos
 * 12) Katie Cleary
 * 13) Adrianne Curry
 * 14) Lisa D'Amato
 * 15) Yaya Da Costa
 * 16) Sarah Dankleman
 * 17) Tatiana Dante
 * 18) Leah Darrow
 * 19) Michelle Deighton
 * 20) Joanie Dodds
 * 21) Rebecca Epley
 * 22) Danielle Evans
 * 23) Xiomara Frans
 * 24) Jennipher Frost
 * 25) Lluvy Gomez
 * 26) Cassie Grisham
 * 27) Kristi Grommet
 * 28) Ebony Haith
 * 29) Bethany Harrison
 * 30) Diane Hernández
 * 31) Keenyah Hill
 * 32) Yoanna House
 * 33) Kathy Hoxit
 * 34) Kelle Jacob
 * 35) Toccara Jones
 * 36) Anchal Joseph
 * 37) Kyle Kavanaugh
 * 38) Nicole Linkletter
 * 39) Leslie Mancia
 * 40) Robbyne Manning
 * 41) Ann Markley
 * 42) Camille McDonald
 * 43) Naima Mora
 * 44) Christina Murphy
 * 45) Nik Pace
 * 46) Nicole Panattoni
 * 47) Brita Petersons
 * 48) Eva Pigford
 * 49) Sara Racey-Tabrizi
 * 50) Sarah Rhoades (ANTM)
 * 51) Tiffany Richardson
 * 52) Magdalena Rivas
 * 53) Kahlen Rondot
 * 54) Jayla Rubinelli
 * 55) Brandy Rusher
 * 56) Giselle Samson
 * 57) Mercedes Scelba-Shorte
 * 58) Kari Schmidt
 * 59) Bre Scullark
 * 60) Elyse Sewell
 * 61) Noelle Staggers
 * 62) Brooke Staricha
 * 63) Mollie Sue Steenis-Gondi
 * 64) Shannon Niquette Stewart
 * 65) Kim Stolz
 * 66) Shandi Sullivan
 * 67) Amanda Swafford
 * 68) Ebony Taylor
 * 69) Julie Titus
 * 70) Norelle Van Herk
 * 71) Kesse Wallace
 * 72) Cassandra Whitehead
 * 73) April Wilkner
 * 74) Wendy Wiltz
 * 75) Coryn Woitel
 * 76) Jaeda Young

It is noted in previous AFDs that reality TV contestants generally aren't notable unless they come close to winning the show. Many of these do not assert notability under WP:BIO.MER-C 11:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep per nom, which appears to indicate that they are notable in the TV show. That should be sufficient. See, for example, Erika Hernandez, certainly not notable outside the TV show. And reality TV has its adherents, who may be looking for this information. -- JHunterJ 11:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep per JHunterJ. A lot of perfectly good work would be deleted. Budgiekiller 11:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete those who can only be written up as "X is a contestant in the Y series of the show", keep those who have achieved more fame than that. A randomly-selected sample of the articles bundled here seems to show that there are some of both (run-of-the-mill contestants and winners), so a blanket delete does not apply here per the precedent cited in the nomination. BigHaz 11:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. Too many articles to make a all-encompassing decision. I would suggest merging and redirecting notable contestants to the show pages, then renominate the ones that are not notable inside the show either. - Mgm|(talk) 11:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * merge them all. When someone becomes notable, split. --Abu Badali 12:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete all non-notable reality TV dross. --RMHED 13:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep all per JHunterJ. Kirjtc2 14:08, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep all per JHunterJ. - also they may be 'reality show cruft' in your eyes but they are notable. Some have moved from the show into a working life in the media, or model (in case of the ANTM people). kju 14:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment most of them aren't remotely notable, having appeared briefly on a reality TV show isn't notability.Otherwise you would have a page for every reality TV show contestant there has ever been in the whole world. Maybe that's your idea of encylopaedic, but it sure aint mine.--RMHED 15:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The ones who have only appeared briefly on a reality TV show could be nominated for deletion separately or as a (smaller) group, but the list presented here is too broad. -- JHunterJ 15:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep allI worked hard on all those pages. I don't want to see all my hard work go to waste. Lil Flip246 15:37, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment not exactly a compelling argument. I suggest oyu ellaborate on the reason that made you believe theses articles were worth of your precious work. Best regards, --Abu Badali 15:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * CommentThese are worth keeping because first of all I spent so much of my time working hard on them. It would be a waste to see them all go. Second of all the majority of these girls have found modeling/acting careers post show. For example Elyse Sewell has done more modeling than all the winners combined. She is signed with multiple agencies, and is a top model in China. Also these pages are not yet complete. There is alot of available info in their MySpaces. Lil Flip246 15:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete all. WP:BIO, WP:NOT. Notability not established for these people, outside of what brief mention they may deserve on the competitions/game shows/reality shows they were on. wikipediatrix 16:06, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep some I concur with BigHaz. -- Whpq 16:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Which ones to keep? I've clicked each one and can't see it for any of them, even the ones that went on to do minor modeling or minor bit parts on soaps. wikipediatrix 16:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * For starters, the ones who actually won their respective shows would seem notable (winners of any other reality show seem notable as well, so that solves that quandary). Those who made it to the final episode or however this show works are probably notable for almost winning (that seems to be what the precedent is, but don't quote me off-hand). Those who went on to bigger and better things despite not coming close to winning are probably notable because of what they went on to do. An argument could be made that anyone kicked off or involved in a controversial incident on the show is notable, but I'm not sure if that stands up or applies here. BigHaz 22:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * CommentIf you want to delete some, then ONLY delete the ones who have had NO MODELING/ACTING careers after the show. Lil Flip246 16:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Having a modeling or acting career does not guarantee notability. Actresses are often deleted here who have even done several feature films. Read WP:BIO. wikipediatrix


 * Keep This mass list is a bit deceptive: Adrianne Curry won ANTM, was on the Surreal Life had another reality show on VH-1, is married to Christopher Knight, appeared in Playboy etc. Love or hate reality TV, she's notable. Nicole Linkletter also won ANTM.  Why the rush lately to delete reality show character articles (see the Project Runway Afd's from yesterday)?  If it's really important to you that these articles do not exist on Wikipedia, then we need to do the work and take each one at a time.  If it's too much work to consider each article on its merits, then I don't believe deletion should be an option. Dina 16:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Being married to Christopher Knight or appearing in Playboy does not guarantee notability. There's no set-in-stone policy yet about winners of such shows as ANTM, but I feel that these type of reality shows are essentially no different than game shows - they're televised competitions between unknown people - as opposed to celebrity-driven reality shows like The Osbournes or Gene Simmons Family Jewels. wikipediatrix 16:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Unless it's someone like Ken Jennings, people don't get wrapped up in the performances of particular game show contestants like they do with those on reality shows. Does anybody watch Wheel of Fortune and root for one of the contestants each night? I watch both game and reality shows frequently...I couldn't tell you who won on Wheel or Jeopardy last night, but I could tell you who got voted off American Idol or fired on The Apprentice last year. With reality shows, you get to know the contestants, their bio info, and their idiosyncracies. That just doesn't happen with most game shows, and that's what makes them more notable. (For the record, I've never seen a single episode of ANTM.) Kirjtc2 16:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well my point is just that in at least these two cases, the nom's stated criteria It is noted in previous AFDs that reality TV contestants generally aren't notable unless they come close to winning the show. Many of these do not assert notability under WP:BIO are not met. A mass deletion is simply not in order here. I don't exactly agree that the competitors on reality shows are no different than game shows -- game show contestants generally appear for only one episide, very little biographical information about them is offered, and game shows in general have a much smaller fan base than shows like ANTM Dina 16:43, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * But those with modeling careers are notable. For example the likes of Ann Markley and Rebecca Epley. It's just dissapointing that some people want to delete this. We've worked so hard on these pages, and many of them are improving. If you want to delete some then ONLY delete those without modeling/acting careers like Heather Blumberg and Tatiana Dante. Lil Flip246 16:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete All reality cruft. And all the images added today are unsourced. Grrr. The JPS talk to me  16:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep Some of these girls have had some success outside/after the show, and I think people would want to know that. For me, Wikipedia is where I get a lot of info. on these girls and what they're up to, and I presume some others also use it for that same purpose.  Mayukhers112 17:07, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Extreme very weak keep. For most of the nominated articles I checked, I would say delete. Reality TV is just another form of game show, and we don't have an article on every contestant who was on The Price Is Right. That said, the sheer volume of nominated articles is too large and I am not about to say "delete" on a blanket nomination like this without checking all the articles, which I do not intend to do. Agent 86 17:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's because the Price is Right is a game show not reality show. Every episode of The Price is Right, there are new contestants. But on reality shows like ANTM, there is a main cast for each season. Lil Flip246 17:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete stubs and redirect; keep the rest. Seems simple enough. Soo 18:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Weak keep Many of these should be deleted, but don't "throw the baby out with the wash." Some have gone on to careers that give them notability. Doc &#9836; talk 18:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Point out which ones you think are notable enough and perhaps MER-C will withdraw their nominations from the bundle. wikipediatrix 19:53, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't have the time for such a mass project just now, but I've skimmed the list that Dina has posted below, and she has Keep beside a number of the names that I feel should be kept. Doc &#9836; talk 20:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Along the lines of Agent 86's comments above, that's a lot of work for the readership. Better to use a little more selectivity in the nomination in the first place. -- JHunterJ 20:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep, per MacGyverMagic. Elcda0 19:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete - can always recreate any that have some claim to notability.   Dl yo ns 493   Ta lk  19:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * What kind of reason is that? Wouldn't it be easier to Keep any that have some claim to notability?  Or should all articles in Wikipedia be deleted, since the notable ones can always be recreated? -- JHunterJ 19:44, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Nearly all are clearly non-notable, but mass nominations like this, although well-intentioned, just don't work - there's no satisfactory way to agree on and keep just the notable ones.  Dl yo ns 493   Ta lk
 * 40 out of 77 are flagged Keep below, thanks to Dina's hard work. Not "nearly all", or not "clearly". -- JHunterJ 20:17, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Alternative to a mass delete
 * Criteria I used for compiling the following list include:
 * the nom's own reality TV contestants generally aren't notable unless they come close to winning the show.
 * "Delete the stubs and redirect, keep the rest" from Soo
 * My own feeling that with a current modeling career (usually determined by whether or not they have been signed) this information is verifiable and therefore not running afoul of any wikipedia policy.
 * I erred on the side of inclusion. (signified by Weak Keep where the credits seem slim, but I don't feel like I know enough about modeling to judge.) I didn't google anybody, just used info from the articles.
 * Lastly, anyone who thinks this is all realityfancruft probably won't find the following useful, but in the interest of building a consensus, this is what I've got Dina 19:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC):


 * 1) Caridee English Delete
 * 2) Nnenna Agba Weak Keep not much of a career, but linked from Igbo people article.
 * 3) Sara Albert Delete
 * 4) Catie Anderson Keep runway model, TV credit
 * 5) Ashley Black Delete
 * 6) Heather Blumberg Delete
 * 7) Nicole Borud Delete
 * 8) Anna Bradfield Delete
 * 9) Furonda Brasfield Delete
 * 10) Brittany Brower Keep signed, TV appearances
 * 11) Tessa Carlson Delete
 * 12) Jenascia Chakos Delete
 * 13) Katie Cleary Keep modeled in Maxim is Deal or no deal model
 * 14) Adrianne Curry Strong Keep (winner season 1, tv appearances, etc.)
 * 15) Lisa D'Amato  Weak Delete gah, I dunno
 * 16) Yaya Da Costa Keep signed, working on films
 * 17) Sarah Dankleman Weak keep modeled for Stuff
 * 18) Tatiana Dante Delete
 * 19) Leah Darrow Delete
 * 20) Michelle Deighton  Keep  Janice Dickinson Modeling Agency
 * 21) Joanie Dodds  Keep placed second season 6
 * 22) Rebecca Epley  Keep  signed, working
 * 23) Danielle Evans  Strong Keep  Winner season 6
 * 24) Xiomara Frans  Keep Hugo Boss model
 * 25) Jennipher Frost Delete
 * 26) Lluvy Gomez Delete
 * 27) Cassie Grisham Delete
 * 28) Kristi Grommet Delete
 * 29) Ebony Haith   Keep  signed model
 * 30) Bethany Harrison  Delete
 * 31) Diane Hernández  Keep  signed working model. A rare plus sized model on ANTM
 * 32) Keenyah Hill   Keep working model
 * 33) Yoanna House   Keep tv host The Look for Less
 * 34) Kathy Hoxit Delete
 * 35) Kelle JacobDelete
 * 36) Toccara Jones   Keep signed & Celebrity Fit Club
 * 37) Anchal JosephDelete
 * 38) Kyle Kavanaugh Weak Keep
 * 39) Nicole Linkletter   Strong Keep winnner season 5
 * 40) Leslie Mancia Weak Keep
 * 41) Robbyne Manning   Keep former Miss Tennesee, TV credits
 * 42) Ann Markley   Keep signed, working
 * 43) Camille McDonald Delete
 * 44) Naima Mora   Keep Winner season 4
 * 45) Christina Murphy   Keep  signed working model
 * 46) Nik Pace   Keep  came in second season 5, signed, working
 * 47) Nicole Panattoni Delete
 * 48) Brita Petersons  Keep  signed
 * 49) Eva Pigford   Strong Keep  winner season 3
 * 50) Sara Racey-Tabrizi   Keep  signed, working
 * 51) Sarah Rhoades (ANTM) Delete
 * 52) Tiffany Richardson  Delete
 * 53) Magdalena Rivas Delete
 * 54) Kahlen Rondot   Keep  runner up season 4
 * 55) Jayla Rubinelli Delete
 * 56) Brandy Rusher Delete
 * 57) Giselle Samson Delete
 * 58) Mercedes Scelba-Shorte Keep  runner up season 2
 * 59) Kari SchmidtDelete
 * 60) Bre Scullark Delete
 * 61) Elyse SewellKeep  apparently has written a book.  Who knew?
 * 62) Noelle Staggers Delete
 * 63) Brooke Staricha Delete
 * 64) Mollie Sue Steenis-Gondi   Keep  signed Elite
 * 65) Shannon Niquette Stewart   Keep  Miss Ohio runner up, Ford Models
 * 66) Kim Stolz   Keep  mtvU vj
 * 67) Shandi Sullivan   Keep  she’s a burglar!
 * 68) Amanda Swafford Weak Keep
 * 69) Ebony Taylor   Keep signed, working, in movies
 * 70) Julie Titus Delete
 * 71) Norelle Van Herk Delete
 * 72) Kesse Wallace Weak Keep
 * 73) Cassandra Whitehead Delete
 * 74) April Wilkner  Keep  working, hosts something
 * 75) Wendy Wiltz Weak Keep
 * 76) Coryn Woitel Delete
 * 77) Jaeda Young Delete


 * Elyse Sewell's book is only available in Hong Kong. Being a "signed model or a working model", as you indicated for Ebony Haith and Christina Murphy, still doesn't make someone notable enough for an article and besides, the info on their articles is completely unsourced. The talk show you justify April Wilkner with isn't a real show, it's a spacefiller-type-thing that only lasts a few minutes (IMDB calls it a "mini" show) and only gets 25 hits on Google. And Robbyne Manning was NOT a former Miss Tennessee. Look it up. Most of the other "keep" votes are based on things that don't fit WP:BIO, like allegedly having modeled for notable (and often not so notable) agencies. And connections to notable agencies do not automatically confer notability. wikipediatrix 20:08, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * My attempt here is merely to simplify a deletion proposal that's incredibly complicated because it proposes 77 (!) articles for deletion. All of my suggestions above are up for discussion. Wasn't it easier for you to check now that I've marked some Delete and you could just skip over them?  As I mentioned, I didn't google anyone, but merely tried to sort the stubs from the articles with some content and provide a brief summary of why I think they should be kept, in the interests of inclusion and building a consensus here (which will require compromise for everyone as my first impulse was to keep them all and I've now marked roughly half Delete).  It's a tool for the discussion, not the final word on these women's notability. And I realize there's been some unfortunate reversions on the affected pages recently that would get anyone's ire up. And I'm sorry if I somehow misread Robbyne Manning -- I'll have to go doublecheck where I got that she was a Miss Tennesee.  But verifying all the credentials for all 77  women is a task I'll have to share with other editors. Dina
 * The user wikipediatrix has removed alot of information from all the pages above. I feel that he/she wanted to convince people that these pages are needed for deletion by making them stubs. Lil Flip246 21:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * These articles are filled with original research, unsourced gossip about living persons, outright copyright violations, and unsourced images that are scheduled to be yanked off Wikipedia in a few days anyway. You have already violated the WP:3RR rule and if you persist in your edit-warring to restore unsourced info and copyright violations, I will have to file a complaint. Captainktainer and I both have been very patient explaining how WP:RS and WP:V work, but you choose to ignore it. wikipediatrix 21:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Should be kept. We've worked so hard! Acne Wash
 * Almost all of the ANTM contestants have found success after the show. We only need to delete those who didn't get signed with an agency or didn't start a career in the entertainment industry. Lil Flip246 21:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We should ONLY delete those without modeling/acting/other entertainment careers after the show like Tessa Carlson, Ashley Black, Kristi Grommet, and Sarah Rhoades. Those with careers like Ann Markley, Sara Albert, Mercedes Scelba-Shorte, and Sara Racey-Tabrizi should NOT be deleted. Lil Flip246 21:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've been sourcing alot of the pages. But it's hard cause most of the are from the models' MySpace. They always update their work on their MySpace, but since we can't use myspace as a source. You get it. Lil Flip246 21:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * As I've mentioned. It is hard make sources when most of the sources are the model's myspace, where they post their career updates. But we cant use Myspace as a source. This is frustrating. Lil Flip246 22:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Most of the sources are the model's MySpace. But we can't use MySpace as a source. Do you understand what I'm trying to say. For example, the Ann Markley page, the majority of the info is from her MySpace. Also ALL these info is available in the hundreds of ANTM fansites. Why don't you trust the ANTM fans? Lil Flip246 22:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There are lots of things that frustrate me with your changes. You ask to cite the obvious. For example you ask to cite about the winner's prize. I just feel that it's retarted that you want every sentence to be cited. There are hundreds of people pages here at wikipedia without sources. Lil Flip246 22:57, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * What article are you referring to? I don't think I asked for the fact that someone won to be cited. wikipediatrix 23:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well someone did on the Eva Pigford page. They asked to cite the prizes for ANTM. Lil Flip246 23:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Concerning the source thing again. For example a page like Ebony Taylor's. It is filled with info on the modeling she has done since the show. Yet you ask to source it. The problem is that the majority of the information was taken from MySpace, BUT we can't use it as a source. So what are we supposed to do?? The majority of the ANTM contestants info is taken from their MySpace accounts. But as we know we can't use it as a source. Lil Flip246 23:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I wonder why this career information can only be found on their MySpace accounts and nowhere else, could it be because they are non-notable?--RMHED 23:44, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sheesh.  Lil Flip246: This AfD space is not really the right space for your edit dicussions with wikipediatrix.  I'm going to post to your talk page my understanding of why Myspace pages don't work well as sources. wikipediatrix and RMHED:  This discussion has value, despite the flaws of the articles and their editorial processes.  There are no guidelines for articles about reality TV stars, the issue isn't going anywhere, and "non-notability" is not a criteria for deletion. WP:DP Let's all be civil here and discuss the issue that's presented -- it's a knotty enough problem and we could use your best reasoning. Dina 23:57, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't speak for RMHED, but I generally think when we say a person is NN, we really mean they fail WP:BIO. (And WP:CORP if it's a company, and so on, etc.) And I do think the fact that proper sources for many of these articles can't be found outside of their own MySpace pages speaks volumes. wikipediatrix 00:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's still disputable whether or not WP:BIO applies to reality TV characters -- they are real people, but their notability largely depends on their role as characters in a television show. I think a more general guideline, like Wikipedia:Importance might apply here.  And when I say that non-notability isn't a criteria for deletion, I'm including WP:BIO.  There are three official criteria for deletion and notability is not involved, though verifiability is, which does, in fact, render some of these articles deletable in my opinion.  Though not all. Dina 01:14, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well... I suppose wikipediatrix is right about the link between MySpace sources and non-notability. If we can't find non-MySpace sources for info on the girls, they most likely fall into the NN category. I can find a wealth of information on the winners and several of the girls without going to MySpace, though. Elcda0 01:03, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * For me a reality TV contestant would need to have gone on to much bigger and better things in order to be notable. A few UK examples would be Ben Fogle, Brian Dowling Saira Khan or gained national notoriety like Jade Goody. Most, if not all the models listed, can't lay claim to this --RMHED 00:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep a) These are highly more notable then the thousand plus royals we have here b) They've been on a popular show etc, enough for me. thanks/User:MatthewFenton (talk • contribs) 00:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Just a few points -
 * Adrianne Curry, even if you ignore the fact that she was the first winner of ANTM, has starred in in a season of VH1's The Surreal Life, and had her own VH1 show, My Fair Brady, for two seasons. Everyone else that appeared on that season of The Surreal Life has their own Wikipedia article.  She has over 500,000 Google hits.  A mere mention on ANTM or the page for Cycle 1 is simply not enough for visitors to Wikipedia wanting information about her.
 * Elyse Sewell, despite becoming popular for her time on ANTM's first season, has had significant success in modeling after the show. She appeared on the cover of Harper's Bazaar, which recently featured a naked Britney Spears.  She has a popular livejournal blog, which according to the statistics on this site, is the 11th most popular blog on Livejournal.  "Elyse Sewell" gets  almost 90,000 Ghits.

I would suggest keep on at least those two. I admit some of the articles are a bit excessive, though. Fabricationary 04:14, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete selective list per Dina. Reality contestants are not inherently notable but may be if they have other achievements outside the narrow confines of the show. Although some might succeed in a few years and warrant an independent page, most of these girls will disappear and be forgotten in a few years. Anybody's hard work, where the subject does not satisfy wiki-criteria for inclusion should be deleted. Ohconfucius 04:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per Ohconfucius Mad Jack 06:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep all for now but without prejudice to later re-nomination for deletion. The nominator stated that "reality TV contestants generally aren't notable unless they come close to winning the show", yet most of the contestants were nominated for deletion even if they did win the show or clearly achieved notability from post-show activities (both were the case with Adrianne Curry). I could support deletion in some cases but it would be better to review the less notable contestants individually and keep the more notable contestants out of AfD consideration. As a second choice, keep the ones recommended by Dina for keeping and delete the ones she recomended for deleting. --Metropolitan90 06:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep all per above comments. I don't see how these kind of mass nominations help achieve consensus in any way, each person has their own individual reasons for notability.  This is just one big Charlie Foxtrot.  RFerreira 07:00, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep all, I don't like mass nominations like this, and a large majority of these articles are well worthy of being kept. bbx 07:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, you should state which ones are "well worthy", and state why you think so... wikipediatrix 13:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep the overall winner(s), plus any contestants who have other claims to independent notability. As for the others, I think it's reasonable to keep an article on each one if (1) the show is actively on the air, and (2) the individual contestant is getting regular press from it in the entertainment news.  Those two factors give them a reasonable claim (IMHO) for at least temporary notability.  Then, after the season finishes, take another look at the article.  If the contestant's notability disappeared with the end of the season, merge their article back into the main show article, set up their name as a redirect to the show article, and life goes on. --Elonka 07:53, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. At least some, such as Adrianne Curry and Elyse Sewell should clearly stay. Probably all the girls are more well known than a lot of people on wikipedia, but this is the problem with having no clear guidelines on what deserves an entry - If being known by the public is the main criteria, then these girls are obviously way ahead of the many academics and historical figures contained in wikipedia.
 * Keep all per above. Also, what happened before doesn't really matter. --badlydrawnjeff talk 11:04, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep - Adrianne Curry, I'll admit right now that I don't know who most of these people are and probably don't care since I don't watch television. (yes, I have one, but I just watch rented movies)  I'm also not about to go through a list of 76 people.  But Adrianne Curry is a definite keep.  Her appearances outside of the show make her noteworthy enough.  Dismas|(talk) 13:15, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment. Many of the "keep" votes seem to be made on the basis of one or two entries on the list. That is not a valid reason to vote "keep" on the entire list. Be specific about which should be kept and which should be deleted, so the nominator can choose to withdraw some of the nominations before the AfD ends. Furthermore, some are voting keep simply because they don't like the length of the list of nominations - that's hardly AfD criteria. If you don't want to slog through the long list, I can't say as I blame you, but don't just blindly vote "Keep all" if you haven't actually read all the articles. People would be complaining even more if the nominator had actually filed 76 separate AfDs. wikipediatrix 13:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete most per Dina's list above. Those she found rationale to keep, even weakly, should be kept or get individual discussions, the rest should just go. GRBerry 13:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment We should keep those with careers after the show such as Ann Markley, Sara Albert, Kim Stolz, Leslie Mancia, Sara Racey-Tabrizi, Amanda Swafford, YaYa DaCosta, Brittany Brower, Michelle Deighton, Nnenna, etc..But we should delete those who did not have careers in fashion/entertainment after the show such as Anna Bradfield, Nicole Borud, Jenascia Chakos, Tatiana Dante, Sarah Dankleman, Leah Darrow, etc. Lil Flip246 14:58, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Having "careers" does not establish notability per WP:BIO. Most people have "careers" but most people do not get Wikipedia articles. wikipediatrix 15:01, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but these girls with careers in fashion/entertainment are working their way to the top. For example, Sara is one 2 other models on the show to be signed with more than one agency. Also another example, Kim is the only ANTM model to grace the cover and pages of WWD..She is also the first to become a VJ...Another example, Ann Markley..She was the first to model for top fashion designers in NY fashion week. Eva and YaYa did only for one.. There are so many reasons to keep them. Lil Flip246 15:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, wikipediatrix can you please answer the questions on my talk page? Thanks. Lil Flip246 15:48, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete most per Dina's list and per LilFlip246 above (let's wait until they've worked their way to the top). I suggest the remained be renominated individually or in smaller groups as few, if any, appear to meet the standards set out in WP:BIO. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. I agree completely with JHunterJ. CarlosTheDwarf 02:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment when looking at these articles I suggest you check the histories and look at versions of them prior to any edits by User: Wikipediatrix to get a better idea of their career and notability. This user has been deleting whole chunks of these articles based on their lack of cited sources (including information clearly obvious from the broadcasts and common knowledge), despite it being suggested that the best course of action is slapping "sources" and "fact" templates on them.  Efforts are being made my myself and others to restore relevant deleted content and to source this, but it will obviously take time (and may be pointless if many of the articles are deleted). --  PageantUpdater  •  talk  |  contribs  |  esperanza  02:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipediatrix is doing the right thing, actually. Sources should always be given for information, especially when it's about living persons. A lot of this stuff looks like the resumes of these models are being padded, and few people care enough to bother checking. Crabapplecove 13:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Not exactly. Instead of asking for citation wikipediatrix just removes the information without giving anytime for people to give a source. Most of these that are in modeling career are taken from the shows' specials on what the models are doing now. Lil Flip246 15:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep I think the person who decided to ruin all the articles should be punished. What a petty thing to do just because you don't agree that these articles should be here. Unless you are the owner of Wikipedia you do not have any business messing up stuff people have worked on without at least asking for input first.
 * Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Wikipedia policies, such as WP:AFD and WP:BIO, before making such judgements. Nothing has been "messed up".  The articles have simply not lived up to the guidelines of Wikipedia in the eyes of the editor that put the notices there.  Dismas|(talk) 04:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's because the articles are not yet complete. Give it some time instead of removing valuable TRUE information. Wikipediatrix isn't giving us ANTM fans a chance. I've put proper links which state what is written on the model's page, yet wikipediatrx removes them, because he/she wants to make all of them stubs, and eventually deleted. Lil Flip246 15:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete almost all, except Adrianne Curry and Elyse Sewell. Crabapplecove 13:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep all, Some of these models are very notable. This should not have been a mass nomination.  --musicpvm 18:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep all. Mass nominations are not good practice, imo.  Also, all of these people seem to be notable and the articles seem verifiable (though some are somewhat lacking in sources).  --Myles Long 19:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems pretty clear that this is going to roll on and on and end up No consensus. Listing fifty-odd articles all with their own merits (or lack of) is most definitely not the right approach.  We need an admin to close this pretty quickly and then, if needed, we can relist individual articles.  Budgiekiller 19:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.