Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carla Howell (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 21:34, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Carla Howell
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG. Although two previous afds have resulted in "keep", both took place more than a decade ago, seemingly before the threshold for notability became more refined and as soundly defined as it is now. All of the article's current sources are either WP:PRIMARY or contain only trivial coverage of the subject. A WP:BEFORE search on multiple search engines produced only routine campaign coverage (which is insufficient for establishing the notability of non-elected political candidates), trivial coverage of the subject, and non-WP:RS-compliant sourcing. Nothing to satisfy the notability guidelines. Sal2100 (talk) 20:55, 7 July 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 20:42, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Libertarianism, Politics, Politicians, Women,  and Businesspeople. Sal2100 (talk) 21:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete I do not think we have enough sources that are both secondary and in-depth to justify having an article on this person.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:48, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Holy smokes! There are a lot of sources. Because this is day 7 I will post them separately, and soon. Jacona (talk) 13:53, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Some analysis. On Newspapers.com, there are 586 matches for "Carla Howell" + Libertarian. I found coverage from 1997 to 2016, so it's WP:SUSTAINED coverage. Plenty of it is significant coverage, going into details about Howell and her various positions including Marijuana legalization, eliminating the income tax, and more. It covers 32 states, geographically across the country, so it is not just local, routine coverage. Here are a few, not necessarily the best, but a smattering of the sources: ,,, There are at least 500 more at newspapers.com.
 * She is in a bunch of books on gBooks, including Fixing Elections: The Failure of America's Winner Take All Politics.
 * New York Times search comes up with 9 articles.
 * GScholar comes up with a bunch of articles about her. There are quite a few articles on gSearch as well. While the cites in the article may be sparse, according to policy, notability is determined by the existence of sources. AfD is not cleanup. Everywhere you look there is coverage, so this meets WP:GNG, several times over.Jacona (talk) 14:41, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment: In response to Jacona, thanks for your diligent participation and the good faith arguments you've offered. With that being said, as the nominator, I am well aware of the policy WP:NEXIST, and I found many of the same sources that you did when I made my WP:BEFORE search. What I found lacking in the overwhelming majority of them, however, was significant coverage of Howell. Most of them made only a brief mention of, or passing reference to her. The citations found on gBooks were mostly a mention of her on one page, or in a directory listing and the like. I also found very little in-depth coverage of her from the listings on GScholar, Google News ProQuest, NewsBank, etc. Remember, it is not the number of mentions or references to the subject that establish notability but the  depth of the coverage. There could be over a million sources that make mention or reference to the subject, but if they are all brief or passing mentions, it's not enough to pass GNG.
 * As for the four citations you provided, they do indeed provide non-trivial coverage of Howell, but they are all campaign-related. Remember, per WP:NPOL,  unelected candidates are not notable for the  routine coverage their campaigns receive unless that coverage extends well above-and-beyond ordinary campaign reporting in such way as to arguably pass the ten-year test (e.g. Christine O'Donnell). I'm not seeing that here.
 * So, while your input in this discussion is much appreciated, I must respectfully disagree with your assessment that "this meets WP:GNG, several times over" and I stand by my nomination and contention that GNG (and NPOL) are not met here. Sal2100 (talk) 20:46, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The essays cited above as routine coverage and ten-year test are very nice expressions of opinion, but they are not Wikipedia policies or guidelines. The relevant standards are WP:NPOL and WP:GNG, and NPOL specifies that unelected officials such as Howell can be included if they meet GNG, so GNG is the policy I'm discussing here. Among the 568 articles on newspapers.com, Howell was discussed and had some very significant articles not just in her home state but across the country.
 * After her last campaign for office, she held top positions in her party, including being Political Director of the National Libertarian Party, Executive Director of the National Libertarian Party, and chairwoman of the Massachusetts Libertarian party.
 * She's received significant coverage for 20 years. But even if one were to discount all sources from her personal election campaigns, she has received significant coverage during election cycles when she was not a candidate, such as this 2004 article., and all the other coverage after 2002.
 * In order to test whether she has coverage other than routine campaign coverage, a newspapers.com search from 2003 to present finds over 100 articles after her last campaign in 2002. So, respectfully, it appears to me that she meets both NPOL and GNG, and possibly the essays that were cited as well. I don't want anyone to take my opinion for it, but search through the sources and see what you think. I especially think some of the google scholar and book mentions would be helpful, if someone has access to more than the teaser pages available online, but I think the newspaper sources are adequate to prove notability in any case. Jacona (talk) 02:35, 18 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment I started reviewing ProQuest via the WP Library, and have found coverage focused on her as follows:
 * I cannot access this source, but: Editorial; Endorsement; Carla Howell for auditor, Boston Herald 29 Oct 1998 does not appear to be trivial coverage.
 * This does not offer much, but helps connect the timeline of her biography: LIBERTARIAN TO RUN AGAINST KENNEDY FOR SEAT IN SENATE, Tara Yaekel, Boston Globe, 06 Nov 1999: B, 3:5, e.g. "Howell, 44, who ran unsuccessfully against state Auditor Joseph DeNucci last year, hopes to raise $250,000 for her challenge to Kennedy."
 * QUIET LIBERTARIAN FOE TO KENNEDY WINS BACKERS, MacQuarrie, Brian. Boston Globe 01 Oct 2000: A.1. Begins with, "Carla Howell, candidate for US Senate, exudes a polite, earnest intensity as she slowly works the living room of a comfortable home in one of Cape Cod's most comfortable communities. Her straight hair neatly cut, her trim frame clothed in a power blue suit, Howell seems closer to Martha Stewart than a fire-breathing political zealot." The article discusses her political positions, her fundraising, her supporters (in detail), her advertising campaign, her campaign trail appearances, the opinions of others, and biographical information, i.e. "Howell, a Wayland resident, began studying the Libertarian position in the early 1990s because of frustration with federal red tape that she says was choking the health-care industry. She consulted for high-tech, management, and health care companies before devoting herself to a full-time campaign."
 * I cannot access this source, but it is focused on her: Libertarian has out-of-Mass. appeal, Battenfeld, Joe. Boston Herald, 17 Oct 2000.
 * I can only access a preview: CAMPAIGN 2000; Howell giving Libertarians a boost, Crummy, Karen E. Boston Herald 07 Nov 2000, which includes, "Although a recent Herald poll shows Kennedy leading both Howell and Robinson with 60 percent of the votes, Howell - who is running a "small government is beautiful" campaign - is not only gaining on Robinson, but is expected to garner more than enough votes to keep her party on the state map."
 * LIBERTARIANS TALK BOLDLY - OF WINNING SENATE RACE SHOWING BUOYS CONVENTION, Klein, Rick. Boston Globe 25 Feb 2001: B.5, includes a comment from Elias Israel, the state Libertarian party chairman, and then "The confidence is fueled in part by the exceptionally strong showing of Libertarian candidate Carla Howell in a US Senate race last fall. Howell received more than 308,000 votes, and while Senator Edward M. Kennedy crushed everyone else in the race, Howell ran nearly even with the Republican candidate, Jack E. Robinson. That election has made Howell the state party's standard-bearer - and something of a hero to Bay State Libertarians."
 * FOR HOWELL, LIBERTARIAN VIEW HITS HOME, Schweitzer, Sarah. Boston Globe 18 Oct 2002: A.1. Includes detailed biographical informtion about her and her family to support this statement: "Howell's entanglements with the health care system would multiply over the next few years, each bringing new frustrations." and then moves on to "She began scouring health care policy tracts and medical journals, searching for solutions for a system she saw as bloated, burdened with red tape, and oblivious to the pain it inflicted. She found it in a Libertarian pamphlet entitled "Patient Power." etc. Also includes biographical information from her family history, childhood, and education, e.g. "When she graduated a year early at age 16 from Fox Chapel High School outside Pittsburgh, her nascent activism would not go with her. At Bethany College in the rolling hills of West Virginia, she studied mathematics and computer science."
 * Libertarians pick Howell for governor, Telegram & Gazette 07 Apr 2002: A3, coverage is not as in-depth as some of the other sources listed above, but includes, "The Libertarian Party has nominated Carla Howell, who earned a surprising 12 percent of the vote in a U.S. Senate race against Edward M. Kennedy in 2000, as its candidate for governor." and "Howell, a management consultant, has worked in high-tech and health care for 25 years. She is chairwoman of the Committee for Small Government."
 * Howell would cut government and OK guns, Echegaray, Chris. Telegram & Gazette 04 Oct 2002: A8. Focused on her in the context of a campaign appearance, and includes limited commentary, i.e. "Despite the recent exclusion from the debate, Ms. Howell has brought the Libertarian Party, which has 12 candidates on the ballot, more visibility."


 * From my view, there is support for WP:GNG/WP:BASIC notability, because the depth from the sources can allow the article to be further developed and there is WP:SECONDARY commentary about her impacts as a politician over time, so I support a keep for this article. Beccaynr (talk) 15:24, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Other coverage includes:
 * Third-party candidates make voters think twice, The Associated Press. The Providence Journal, 05 Nov 2002: C-02. The abstract begins, "Many voters are torn between the two major party candidates, Shannon O'Brien and Mitt Romney, and the three minor party hopefuls Green Party candidate Jill Stein, Libertarian Carla Howell, and independent Barbara Johnson."
 * Her 2002 campaign is mentioned in context and with commentary in 2007: Professor eyes presidency; WPI's George Phillies a Libertarian candidate, Sutner, Shaun. Telegram & Gazette 22 Oct 2007: A1, i.e. discussing the performance of other Libertarian candidates: "In 2002, its Massachusetts gubernatorial nominee, Carla Howell, also did pretty well, with 23,044 votes, more than 1 percent of the total."
 * Taxes, tolls among key issues for ballot petitioners, Murphy, Matt. Sentinel & Enterprise, 06 Aug 2009, includes, "...said Carla Howell, the former Libertarian candidate for governor who spearheaded an unsuccessful campaign to repeal the state income tax last November." and "Howell filed four separate petitions to roll back the sales tax from 6.25 percent." discussed in the context of other petitions.
 * Taking the liberty vote?: Libertarian presidential candidate Gary Johnson appeals to some fiscal conservatives and supporters of limited government, and may draw some voters from Mitt Romney, Mistler, Steve. Portland Press Herald, 19 Aug 2012, she is quoted in her capacity as the executive director of the national Libertarian Party.
 * Libertarians' election victory: Ballot access, DeBonis, Mike. The Washington Post, 11 Nov 2012. Discusses the Libertarian party, includes "Carla Howell, the national Libertarian Party's executive director, said the party's blend of fiscal conservatism and social progressivism - including support for same-sex marriage, reproductive rights and marijuana legalization - is an easy sell in urban areas, particularly to those voters put off by the GOP's social positions."
 * Libertarian Convention, Weekend Edition Sunday, NPR, May 29, 2016, a brief interview with her in her capacity as the political director of the Libertarian party.
 * It appears she remained high-profile after her campaigns for statewide offices and has had national visibility for various aspects of her political career. Beccaynr (talk) 16:05, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, I can view p. 170 in Fixing Elections: The Failure of America's Winner Take All Politics (Steven Hill, 2004, Taylor & Francis), which describes her 2002 campaign with detail, and then as "a typical result of the Winner Take All media's knee-jerk allegiance to the duopoly." Beccaynr (talk) 16:30, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
 * In 2016, "CNN reached out to several contemporary Libertarians to get a better understanding of Libertarianism as it stands now", including Howell in her capacity as the political director of the Libertarian National Committee. This appears to provide further support for her WP:BASIC notability as a nationally-visible political figure, and as much more than a run-of-the-mill political candidate. Beccaynr (talk) 16:49, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep under WP:GNG as per analysis by Beccaynr. -Kj cheetham (talk) 13:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.