Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carmen María Montiel


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  16:32, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Carmen María Montiel

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Not notable. Being the runner-up in a Miss Universe pageant and being the losing candidate in a district-level election do not make for notability, and much of the other coverage of her that's available relates to criminal issues for which - as far as I can tell - she hasn't been formally charged, meaning that under WP:BLPCRIME we probably shouldn't have an article about her. That's leaving aside the fact that the page in its current form is blatantly promotional (and appears to be the subject of a spat between the subject's representatives and those of her ex-husband, all eager to twist it as far away from NPOV as possible). Yunshui 雲 水 12:46, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Venezuela-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 13:04, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 13:05, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 13:05, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 13:07, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 13:07, 13 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. Even if she was only the runner-up at Miss Universe, the fact that she was the winner of the qualifying pageant at the national level would still constitute a valid notability claim if the article were well-sourced — but the sources here are all unreliable or primary source crap, not notability-supporting reliable sources, and nothing stated in the article is so "inherently" notable as to exempt her from having to have notability-supporting reliable sources just because she has a notability claim. Bearcat (talk) 15:49, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep- Meets WP:NMODEL, she was the winner of Miss Venezuela 1984. This can be found in RS. I removed several of the unreliable sources and added a few stronger ones. There is room for expansion. I'll add that notability is not temporary. Thsmi002 (talk) 17:40, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Outing removed. Salvio Let's talk about it! 14:32, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep- Meets WP:NMODEL WP:POLITICIAN She was the winner of the Miss Venezuela Pageant, Miss Southamerica Pageant and 2nd Runner Up in Miss Universe Pageant in 1984. All former Miss Venezuelas have Wikipedia pages, why will she not? She is a Journalist and Broadcaster with many years working in Television: Venevision and Telemundo/CNN. She is an US citizen and run for US Congress this year. She is now an "USA" Political Figure. She is not a Venezuelan Politician, since she stayed in USA since she came to study.  I erased her ex-husband name from Wikipedia because it is no longer relevant in her life.  All entries from September 12 by those 2 editors should be erased.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by DilmaEmperatriz (talk • contribs) 18:24, 14 September 2018 (UTC)  — DilmaEmperatriz (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep passes WP:NMODEL. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:00, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete this is a really hard one to look at in terms of WP:GNG. She fails WP:NPOL and being unfamiliar with WP:NMODEL I don't see any prong of that section she would qualify under. She has received coverage for one crime on a plane (which was mostly news because of her Miss Universe appearance), there were a couple articles about her talking about domestic violence, and there were a few "running for Congress" articles we typically discount as WP:ROUTINE. None of the articles on the page are reliable or are articles we'd use to determine political notability. I'm a "weak delete" though because of a number of mentions in Spanish language press, and because it's possible she's notable for the Miss Universe pageant, but I would want to see a larger demonstration of notability under WP:NMODEL before voting to keep this. SportingFlyer  talk  01:00, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Easily meets GNG with ample coverage in US and international media prior to entering politics. Being the the winner of a national beauty contest, Miss Venezuela, is more than enough to meet the criteria for notability. To beef up the references, I added a reliable source that adds that she is on the Board of Directors of UNICEF, more background content, and supports existing content. Sydney Poore/FloNight&#9829;&#9829;&#9829;&#9829; 06:09, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Meets GNG and WP:BASIC per sources in article, particularly the El Nuevo Herald profile, 2018 Houston Chronicle section, and New York Post article (RSN says it's the NYP is a reliable source to be used with caution in BLPs; it's currently used carefully and appropriately). There's also a full-length profile in Univision, and a short story on a local news station (addressing BLP-sensitive content). These are all in-depth coverage; note that BASIC also allows multiple passing mentions in RS, such as that in this WaPo story to be combined to contribute to notability. FourViolas (talk) 17:38, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Passes NMODEL AND GNG. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs )~ 19:23, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep passes notability criteria, references have been improved Kingsif (talk) 19:31, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm sorry but all those saying that she passes WP:NMODEL, could you specifically say what there she passes? She doesn't pass this:Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions, or this: Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following or this: Has made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment, so again, how does she pass this? --Gonnym (talk) 23:08, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
 * She also fails WP:POLITICIAN as she has never held office and she isn't a major local political figure who has has received significant press coverage. She probably also fails WP:BASIC by the type and amount of references in her article. I assume that with all these Single-purpose accounts spamming keep, if any real coverage was available, it would have been included already. --Gonnym (talk) 10:00, 20 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep Meets WP:BASIC WP:NMODEL WP:POLITICIAN -- QueenXi
 * — QueenXi (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 20:39, 19 September 2018 (UTC−7).  sock !vote struck. Yunshui <sup style="font-size:90%">雲 <sub style="font-size:90%">水  10:14, 20 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep Meets WP:NMODEL One of the most Notables Miss Venezuela and well known, Miss Venezuela 1984. Very successful specially because she was the first Miss Venezuela that put the Title and contest to work to work in Charities creating "Fundacion Las Missess" (The Misses Foundation) to help children and assist Children Hospitals. That was just her starting in a long career of service and charities to benefit and help those in needs.  WP:POLITICIAN Very well know for her starting in a political career. She is already the talk in the GOP party for her excellent results of her Candidacy in a very battle district -- 19yn  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 19yn (talk • contribs) 03:51, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
 * — 19yn (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.  sock !vote struck. Yunshui <sup style="font-size:90%">雲 <sub style="font-size:90%">水  10:14, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Atlantic306 (talk) 16:30, 21 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.