Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carol Paul (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Ron Paul. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:52, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Carol Paul
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WP:NOTINHERIT. She is simply the wife of Ron & mother of the Paul children. The cookbooks are collections of recipes from friends & family and Carol Paul is not noted as a chef. She worked as a secretary for Ron & does not even like campaigning; thus hardly an "activist" (which was an earlier article description lacking RS). Article did go through a WP:BLAR, but another interest editor reverted. – S. Rich (talk) 14:52, 1 September 2013 (UTC)14:54, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. The "cookbook" is listed as a pamphlet by Amazon and was essentially a fundraising tool for the campaign. So I'm going to say she fails as an author and any other coverage of her appears to stem from simply being married to a notable person. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:22, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Redirect. When faced with articles about notable individuals' nonnotable spouses, we routinely redirect the articles to the notable people; it wouldn't help to delete the title entirely.  Nyttend (talk) 19:43, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 01:15, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 01:15, 2 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment Added review sourcing. -- Green Cardamom
 * Strong Keep as WP:AUTHOR #3, subject of multiple reviews in reliable sources. This cookbook series has received in-depth coverage in multiple national sources including a feature length video and article in the WSJ among many other places. It was Carol Paul's idea for a cookbook "(Back in 2007, Carol Paul told me it was her idea to send cookbooks to the Texas congressman’s constituents.)" This was her initiative, she is independently notable for it. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 04:07, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:02, 2 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep per her cookbooks and substantial coverage of her familial connections to two major U.S. politicians. Candleabracadabra (talk) 22:44, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment by OP: User:Green Cardamom's article contribution is commendable. (In fact, I am amazed!) But the news stories are more of interest to the Ron Paul presidential campaign, 2012 article. With this in mind, Carol Paul has not made a notable contribution to the world of cooking or cookbooks. (And familial connection is not sufficient to overcome this fact.) – S. Rich (talk) 22:53, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * She needs "multiple independent periodical articles or reviews" per WP:AUTHOR #3. Notability of authors has nothing to do with how experienced they are on the topic they write about. It is based on how much press coverage their books get. Also, these books have been ongoing since the 1990s, as the sources describe, far beyond any single campaign. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 01:55, 5 September 2013 (UTC)


 * STRONG Keep: Beyond being a notable author, she is a political activist and a LP symbol. WP:NOTINHERITED pertains more towards completely random people. As in, if we were to have an article on Carol Paul's cousin, simply because it is her cousin. It doesn't pertain to people who are generally associated with someone else, but still have notability on their own. PrairieKid (talk) 02:14, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 18:07, 8 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete - The cookbooks appear to pass GNG. The author apparently does not, with not much outside of the simple proximity-to-a-political-candidate type coverage. Carrite (talk) 02:24, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The notability of an artist is tied to the notability of their work, see WP:CREATIVE. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 02:50, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The news about her work is more related to the fact that it was used for campaign fundraising, not for the quality of the various recipes or as a notable cookbook. Delete. – S. Rich (talk) 03:21, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The cookbook serves a dual function as both a family cookbook and a fundraiser tool, they are not separate, it's its own genre and the sources cover both aspects, some more than others depending on the journalist's focus. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 02:54, 15 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete, notability is not inherited. We wouldn't even be here if she weren't married to a minor cult celebrity.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 01:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC).
 * Inherited is not meant to exclude cases like this. Inherited would be if she were simply the wife of someone famous and did nothing else, simply being someone. But she has done something. It doesn't matter what she did, so long as it gets attention. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 02:54, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't agree. Do we have articles here on every modestly successful cookbook editor?  Even most of the coverage that she's got has been along the lines of "Ron Paul's wife has released a cookbook!", rather than concentrating on her and her books alone.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 04:24, 15 September 2013 (UTC).
 * So what? She has coverage in multiple reliable sources per WP:GNG. You seem stuck on why she has coverage. Notability is not some deserving honor. People who write crappy self-published 16-page pamphlet "cookbooks" and are wives of loathsome politicians can be notable on Wikipedia, so long as they have coverage in multiple reliable sources. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 06:06, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Earlier on I added the OCLC/WorldCat links for her cookbooks to the article. A single library stocks them. (E.g., Baylor University, Rand Paul's alma mater.) I do not think Carol Paul has reached the level of even modest success in the cookbook realm. If she hit a best sellers list, that would be a different matter. The Amazon.com "Best Sellers Rank"  for her 2009 book   is #7,013,401.  – S. Rich (talk)
 * Sales has no bearing on notability, there is no rule for that for many good reasons. Library holdings also has no bearing on notability, again for many good reasons. Notability, in this case, is defined by WP:AUTHOR #3 "multiple book reviews" and WP:GNG "significant coverage in multiple reliable sources". -- Green Cardamom (talk) 06:06, 15 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Redirect/Rename to The Ron Paul Family Cookbook series, as that's really what this article is about. The article consists of a lede and one section. The section is about the cookbooks.  The lede is four sentences, two of which are about the cookbooks.  The only two sentences in the entire article not about the cookbooks are: "Carol Paul (née Carolyn Wells, born February 29, 1936) is an American author, who is the wife of former United States Congressman Ron Paul and the mother of United States Senator Rand Paul. She and her husband have been married since 1957." There is nothing in those sentences that is notable enough to base an article off of. Since this article is for all intents and purpose about the cookbooks, we should just call it that.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Egsan Bacon (talk • contribs) 20:08, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect, I can't find real notability here for reasons others have said above. Neutralitytalk 04:57, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.