Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caucasian Federation


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete. WP:G12: This is a copyvio mess (e.g. and )  slakr  \ talk / 03:14, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Caucasian Federation
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Is an essay, comprising synthesis and OR and seemingly written with a Georgian irredentist pov. We already have articles that fully cover the reality: Transcaucasian Federation and Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic. Despite its proclaimed subject "an early 20th century project about the creation of a Pan-Caucasian federation" - the bulk of the article's content, written with bias, concerns more recent politics in Georgia. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 16:56, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep. The article needs much work to improve the prose and references, but the idea of Caucasian federation has a long history. Accusations of "Georgian irredentism" are false, apparently stemming from the nominator's lack of understanding of its definition and the history of attempts at Caucasian unity. As ephemeric and/or unrealistic as it is, the idea of Caucasian unity has surfaced several times in modern history and I fail to see much OR/POV in this article. If anything, being POV or poorly written is not enough reason to scrap the entry.--KoberTalk 18:01, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you denying that the bulk of the article's content is late-20th century related material? Claiming that the notorious "Georgia for the Georgians" Zviad Gamsakhurdia was actually a figurehead for a "Caucasian Federation" concept is an example of the article's biased pov. So too is the claim that Armenia opposed the concept - in reality it was the opposite: it was Georgia, for its own national interest, that withdrew from the Transcaucasian Federation, causing it to collapse. The idea of a federation should be covered in the already existing articles. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 20:52, 22 November 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep this is an old idea, dating back at least to the WWI period.   It actually did produce the Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic.   And it has come back around in recent years.  Article needs work.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:40, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Please cite even a single source saying it has come back around in recent years. Talk nowadays about reducing post-Soviet Union border or trade or passport restrictions is not a "Caucasian Federation". It is an exclusively 19th / early 20th century concept, dating to when the Southern Caucasus was a multi-ethnic region with multi-ethnic towns and cities and the only way to realize any political independence from Russia or Turkey while maintaining internal stability would be as a federation. That ended after WW1. The Soviet Transcaucasus republic was an outside creation imposed as a way for the Soviets to eliminate internal opposition - once they were firmly in control it was abolished and the individual republics recreated. The appropriate article to cover the subject already exists, it is theTranscaucasian Federation. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:10, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * as for coming back around, it does, you know, usually as somebody's wild proposal for a buffer zone, or local autonomy in between Russia, Turkey and Iran. Here is Hurriyet reporting ("SCENARIO #4 Turkey creates a Caucasian Federation").
 * Back to real-world uses, There have been 2 so far. Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic briefly, in 1918.  and the  Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic 1922-1936.
 * Primary use, of course, is by historians discussing these 2 Soviet "republics." E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:14, 22 November 2016 (UTC)


 * A quick sample of the searches above that have a decent chance of finding reliable sources (the book and scholar searches) unearths almost as many different definitions of this title as there are sources. There doesn't seem to be any agreed definition of what a Caucasian federation actually is, was or should be, so it seems that we would be better served by having separate articles on the different concepts that might go by this name rather than an article with this title. Maybe a disambiguation page would be in order? 86.17.222.157 (talk) 20:09, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Possibly. An editor or 2 willing and able to do the heavy lifting of writing a good article is certainly needed.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:23, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete Don't see many sources on this. Sure, there was some political entities that incorporated all of Transcaucasia but whether there was a formal and distinct "Caucasian Federation" movement remains unclear. This article itself does not clarify that for us. Article appears to be mostly off-topic material. Language is quite unencyclopedic as well, especially the last paragraph which reads like a blog. Étienne Dolet (talk) 19:01, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  → Call me  Razr   Nation  07:11, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 01:09, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 01:09, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep but perhaps renamed. This is about a movement of concept seeking unity within the region.  I do not like the resent name, which implies that a federation exists or existed, whereas it seems never to have been more than a political ambition.  This ambition deserves an article, but perhaps Federative ambitions in the Caucasus.  I am open to suggestions on the precise name.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   14:59, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Endorse User:Peterkingiron's redirect proposal.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:59, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - Largely unsourced original essay. Carrite (talk) 20:55, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete: the topic of "Caucasian Federation" or Trans-Caucasian Federation may be notable, but the execution of the article does not meet WP:V or WP:NPOV, and thus the article should be deleted. No prejudice to recreation should someone decide to do so with reliable sources. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:30, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete - Not only is this article largely unsourced as well lacking reliable sources, the concept of the "Caucasian Federation" is ephemeral. While this was advocated by Georgian and Chechen nationalists in the 1990s and 2000s due to their conflicts with Russia, this was not advocated by Azeris and Armenians at all. Sondrion (talk) 00:51, 21 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.