Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cement in Africa


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Tim Song (talk) 02:55, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Cement in Africa

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This is essentially a list article which lists (and links to) the cities in which cement is produced in Africa (which is essentially just about every major African city). Very few of the actual companies which produce the cement have their own article to which this article could link (presumably because of notability concerns). Delete per WP:DIRECTORY. talk 18:49, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Completely pointless. The Pebble Dare (talk) 19:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't believe that any sourced article about the industries on a particular continent would be pointless. The nomination is premised on the idea that "every major African city" produces cement, which would be a "citation needed" thing for me.  I can say with some confidence that in the United States, the figure is "113 cement plants in 36 states" .  Although "cement" and "Africa" might not equate with "fascinating", an article about manufacturing in Africa is encyclopedic.  Mandsford 21:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Not only is it not fascinating, it's also not notable. Clearly, this is a list article (and as such it should have been titled List of cement plants in Africa).  Given that, remember that list articles are supposed to be an organized directory of notable things (and preferably, these things should have articles that we can link to, thus making the list useful).  Seeing as how almost none of the cement-producing companies listed in this article are notable enough for their own article, this article basically boils down to a big list of non-notable companies.  We could, of course, accurately rename the article to List of cement-producing cities in Africa (since that is essentially what this article is), and if you choose to argue that List of cement-producing cities in Africa shouldn't be deleted, then there's no hope for you.    talk 22:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There's no hope for me? Oh dear... Mandsford 15:32, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The reason for our lack of articles about cement producers in Africa has nothing to do with any lack of notability of such producers, but is simply a reflection of Wikipedia's appalling lack of coverage of African topics, which the deletion of this article would only exacerbate. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:55, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Are there sources available to corroborate the fact that many of the cement producers in Africa are notable, per Wikipedia's standards?  No one is suggesting that African concrete manufacturers are not notable simply because they are African.  They are likely not notable because they don't meet WP's notability standards.  If I'm wrong, it should be quite easy to disprove me (and to be clear, I'm not suggesting that all African cement companies are not notable).  Furthermore, as I said before, the article as it currently stands is not about cement producers in Africa.  It should be titled List of cement-producing cities in Africa, per my argument above.  I think that an article titled Cement in Africa or African cement industry would almost certainly be notable enough for its own article, but just because this article has that title doesn't automatically mean that the article's content matches.  If I name an article Cement in America but then fill it with information about aardvarks and pictures of Brittney Spears (or fill it with a simple list of American cities in which cement is produced), then that article should be deleted until such time that someone has the time and motivation to produce a proper article about cement in America.  Or do I need to rename the article to Aardvarks and Brittney Spears before anyone will agree that it should be deleted?


 * Keep The topic is notable. Please see The global cement report for an excellent source which covers the topic in considerable detail. Colonel Warden (talk) 00:56, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Great. Then let's blank this article and start over using that source to actually create an article about cement in Africa, rather than a list of African cities in which cement is produced (which is currently the content of this article).  Do that, and I'll gladly withdraw my nomination.    talk 23:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * If anyone does that, I'll gladly revert the changes. Mandsford 16:44, 2 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Cement is an important industry in Africa for all sorts of building and construction and also poor transport arrangement make it difficult and costly to supply from one country to another.   Tabletop (talk) 06:47, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:03, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:03, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per Tabletop. Notability does not stop at the Atlantic ocean. Bearian (talk) 21:02, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * mildly amused delete. Really, this page is silly. We don't have "Cement in ..." anything else. "We" do have wikia:list:Cement in Africa, which is even redder. Oh, if we get to Cement in Indonesia, the word for bahasa Indonesia word for cement is ""semen". Really: semen. Cheers, Jack Merridew 07:20, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting, and it's the reverse of how it's done in the Northern Hemisphere. Up here, the hardening process has to take place before the delivery of the semen. Mandsford 12:58, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep and Rename: List meets WP:List and should be renamed to List of companies and cities in Africa that manufacture Portland Cement or something similar. The overall subject is clearly notable and covered by ample sources.  The fact that there are entries without articles is irrelevant.  They just need to be sourced to demonstrate they meet the lists inclusion criteria, they do not need to be notable in their own right. Per JM and TPD, completely pointless and silly are not reasons for deletion.--Mike Cline (talk) 13:32, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "Completely pointless and silly are not reasons for deletion." --  Shouldn't they be?    talk 17:24, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep don't rename either. Cement is a key building material for the basics of "modern" living. Its availability in Africa (and the fortunes to be made by mis-use of control over the supply chain) has been a topic of huge significance for African politics and 3W development. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:51, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.