Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ceri James


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   No consensus. Stifle (talk) 09:56, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Ceri James

 * - (View AfD) (View log)

In this article Ceri James describes himself firstly as a singersongwriter - there is another singersongwriter called Ceri James it therefore causes confusion. Also the Ceri James listed here although he is a writer he works under different names like Kezzatron and with a band called The mountaineers and he doesn't use the name Ceri James. He works mostly as a session musician not as a singersongwriter under this name therefore the article is misleading. The other singersongwriter Ceri James not listed here has released an album under the name Ceri James.

This article also shouldn't be about an individual it's against Wikipedia policy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cerijames (talk • contribs) 2008/06/13 00:10:25
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 12:06, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  15:37, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I think alot of the aticles about bands and musicians on wikipedia are done by the band members or musicians themselves. They shouldn't do this it should happen organically. There seem to be quite a few articles that should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cerijames (talk • contribs) 20:28, 19 June 2008 (UTC) What??? It's not relevant that the article might have been done by the person themselves or by their best friend. Of course it's relevant it's the most relevant question you can ask. Also If the ordinary boys is made up of session musicians then it wouldn't be a band - it would be Preston's backing band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cerijames (talk • contribs) 21:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: Hmm, user CeriJames nominated article "Ceri James" for deletion, presumably to replace the article with one about CeriJames. I think the current Ceri James fails WP:MUSIC unless "The Ordinary Boys" is a notable band.  Tempshill (talk) 16:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: The Ordinary Boys are notable. They (according to our article) have a number of uk chart hits (both albums and singles). Also see these sources:, , , . They are probably bigger in the UK than elsewhere. I'm not sure about Ceri James though. If he is a session musician for The Ordinary Boys, rather than a band member, I'm not sure the notability of the band is that relevant. I've found this source for him being a session musician . I assume that's the same person. Silverfish (talk) 20:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Member of two bands, at least one of which, possibly both, appears to pass WP:BAND (The Ordinary Boys). As for the bizarre assertion that "This article also shouldn't be about an individual it's against Wikipedia policy", tell that to WikiProject Biography! &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 19:11, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Hmm indeed. The creator of the article is a certain User:Alex mountaineer. sparkl!sm hey! 21:03, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * That's not relevant to this discussion; WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 20:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, it isn't relevant who wrote the article. This is about policies, guidelines, and quality of the specific article in question. "Self-written" articles are not Verboten, just not encouraged. Perfectly reasonable, encyclopedic, and neutral articles can be written even by the subject (it's just that many don't bother). Jasynnash2 (talk) 08:17, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Well I don't think people should write their own history as a general rule(isn't that what the Nazi's did). But whatever, I already spoke to Ceri James a few years back who quite possibly wrote this article himself - I don't know. I think he was a bit worried there would be confusion about the name that's why he wrote to me. The problem is that it causes too much confusion. He used to be in a band called The Mountaineers(not sure if he still is I think he left) he is not a solo singersongwriter under the name Ceri James. His own solo project is called something else so he should write that name onto wikipedia. Also he wasn't in the Ordinary Boys original line up I think he was drafted in a as a session musician - and the Ordinary Boys don't even exist now. If he's mainly a session musician he should state that otherwise it could mislead people. My own solo album under the name Ceri James is in all major record stores and downloads. It's registered for the chart and I'm a member of the PRS. This article uses Ceri James myspace but I actually have the CeriJames url on myspace he has another url for his solo project under a completely different name. I think for the benefit of both parties the article either needs to be ammended or deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.15.164 (talk) 15:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC) Weak Delete despite the drama surrounding this I've decided to way in. I don't believe the Mountaineers meet notability criteria (based on the content of their article), which would mean that the subject of this article doesn't meet WP:MUSIC (unless all members of notable bands are notable - in which case I'm wrong). Problem is from looking around I don't think the "other Ceri James" (the nom) meets the criteria any better under that name based on searches I've been able to do. I say delete and protect (as it is easy enough to request unprotection if either of the two (or both) prove to be notable in future. Jasynnash2 (talk) 15:44, 20 June 2008 (UTC) It's not a question of he isn't as important as me - people have a right to know accuate information - this article doesn't really provide that. I tried to edit this article to explain who I am and that we are two different people not one and the same but that got deleted by someone on wikipedia. If wikipedia keeps supplying inaccurate, incomplete or poorly researched information no one will take it seriously. Any person who looks up this article couldquite easily end up assuming we are the same person. As I said I don't know all the procedures and guidlines but it needs amending or deletion end of. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cerijames (talk • contribs) 18:54, 20 June 2008 (UTC) I think Jasynnash2 might be right his proposal might be the fairest way forward. If the article had been about Ceri James the keyboardist and session musician I'd have had no problem with it. It's the singersongwriter part which is causing confusion. I think it must be wikipedia policy that all articles contain accurate information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.15.164 (talk) 22:11, 20 June 2008 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Locobot (talk) 01:25, 21 May 2009 (UTC) JForget  22:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Please note the above is most likely from User:Cerijames - WP:AGF says he probably simply forgot to login. Jasynnash2 (talk) 15:38, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Additional and if I'm out of order feel free to tell me constructive and civil way on my talk page. I'd like to request that User:Cerijames sticks to discussing the article itself and the policies and guidelines which mean it needs to be deleted as at the moment it looks like a he isn't as important as me arguement which doesn't help the article or wikipedia in anyway. Thanks. Jasynnash2 (talk) 15:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * additional I also noticed Jasynnash2 contradicts himself he says the Mountaineers don't meet notability therefore the article doesn't meet WP:MUSIC which means it should be deleted. I'm not proposing to replace this article with a new one about myself immediately - time will tell if either party reaches notability status although there is a strong case that I'm already qualified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cerijames (talk • contribs) 19:27, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

weak delete/ammend' true enough he was a session musician(possibly still is)for Echo & The Bunnymen and Ordinary Boys but I'm not sure that being a session man for either of these bands constitutes being a significant band member. He wasn't a founder member or significant member in either band and he is already mentioned in the Echo and the Bunnymen article so there doesn't need to be a seperate article. Although he definitely was a founding and significant member of the Mountaineers it's unlikely that they reach notability either cause they only released one album. Even if they did then this article should redirect and not mention contain personal references to his own project which doesn't obtain notability. If wikipedia believes his session work does obtain notability then again personal references to his own project shouldn't really be mentioned as again this could create a conflict of interest and isn't relevant at the moment. Perhaps the fairest way would be to ammend the article - I know alot of people are unhappy with the whole deletion process on wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.194.58 (talk • contribs)
 * Keep Well, this one is a doozy, since it's hard to tell what references are referring to which Ceri James. However, it appears that the current subject Ceri James is a touring member of Echo and the Bunnymen, which combined with the other claims presently in the article leads me to believe that person is notable.  As far as I can tell, this is NOT the Ceri James who released an album called "Start and Begin", for whom I have not found evidence of notability.  Presumably, this is the Ceri James who nominated the article for deletion.  Another Ceri James, possibly one of these two and possibly a third, does theatrical lighting design.  Who'd have thought there would be so many Ceri James's? gnfnrf (talk) 22:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC))


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.