Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cesare Catania (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Spartaz Humbug! 06:32, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Cesare Catania
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

This looked real enough when I started cleaning it up. However after removing a number of faked sources (press releases on blogs, primarily), finding next to nothing in RS in a search and finally examining more of the existing sources (E.G. luxurynewsonline.com monacolifestylemagazine.com), I am more or less convinced that this is a publicity job. A number of the "reporting" sources I removed also had the artist's web site listed, which is the mark of advertising, not journalism. I don't agree. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 20:29, 19 May 2020 (UTC) ThatMontrealIP (talk) 20:29, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * See for example the news item here, and in particular at the bottom where it says ""Promoted by Cesare Catania ART / www.cesarecatania.eu/milano-design-week-2019 / Communication by MADE4ART“.
 * This source, currently used in the article, has the artist's web site, Facebook and Youtube channels included.
 * This archived source,currently used in the article, clearly states "Press Release" at the top.
 * This source, currently used in the article, also has the artist's site, Facebook, Youtube and Instagram links, and included the text "Press Office Cesare Catania Art".
 * My Italian is so-so, but I am guessing that the headline for this supposed 'source' translates to "The great success of Cesar Catania at Montevideo"...
 * This source has to be from a press release, as it includes the artist's web site.
 * Luxurynewsonline.com is careful to include his Facebook, web site and Instagram URLs in the article. Good job.
 * Finally, when I found this article on riveiera-buzz.com in a search, I was pretty sure something was up. It included his phone number, address and email and says that Once or twice in every generation, a visual artist emerges who stands out from the rest and who will go down in the annals of art history. For the early 21st century, that person has come into focus: Italian painter and sculptor Cesare Catania.
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 20:29, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 20:29, 19 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment: A number of actual sources are mixed in with all the garbage self-promotion.
 * Participation at 7° biennale d’arte internazionale di Montecarlo [unsure if this is indeed RS]
 * Article about The Heart of the Earth - B Version
 * Article about Monte Carlo exhibition [fairly promotional language, but I could not find evidence that this isn't a RS]
 * Exhibition at Barclays Bank of Monte Carlo
 * userdude 21:03, 19 May 2020 (UTC); struck #3 23:21, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * , I only looked at one, as I am pretty much convinced at this point. From your list, the text at the bottom of source 3 translates from the Italian to "Source: Sabrina Fraschibi, Cesare Catania Press Office ART In the photo in evidence: the artist Cesare Catania".ThatMontrealIP (talk) 22:09, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, I can't look away... here is the press release, with contact info, that source number two in your list was copied from. This is the article with the headline "the grand success of the artist Cesar...", which is not how journalists write.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 22:15, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that the farecultura.net source was copied from the presswire.com press release. The press release is from July 2018, the article is from October 2017. userdude 23:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I assume you were actually referring to the artemagazine.it source (you linked to the wrong url), which came out on 19 July while the press release is from 26 July. userdude 23:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I got a link wrong, but does it really matter? All I have seen so far is a dozen or so sources that are clear PR junk, and several more that are likely PR junk. There's no evidence of independent coverage.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 00:27, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, there's a lot of PR junk but there may also be independent coverage. If there exists sufficient coverage to meet WP:N, it shouldn't matter that PR junk also exists. I didn't mean to insult you by pointing out your incorrect link, it's just that it wasn't until I already checked the sources that I noticed it was the wrong link. I don't understand why you say the the artemagazine.it source was copied from the presswire.com press release. Could you explain your reasoning on this? userdude 06:15, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This reminds me of someone finding a pint of strawberries that have gone moldy. They dig in the pint and miraculously find one good strawberry. The pint is still bad.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 07:04, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict reply to Special:Diff/957722536) I'm not proposing that the press release copied the article, it just didn't seem to me like either copied the other. Rereading the articles, there is some very similar language: (differences underlined)
 * In questa opera d'arte Cesare Catania ha voluto concentrare tutta la forza degli elementi considerati di maggiore impatto energetico: la pramide rovesciata e la sfera, la polvere di marmo proveniente dalla Terra e i frammenti di meteorite proveniente dall'Universo.
 * In questa opera Catania ha voluto concentrare tutta la forza degli elementi considerati di maggiore impatto energetico: la pramide rovesciata e la sfera, la polvere di marmo proveniente dalla Terra e i frammenti di meteorite proveniente dall'Universo.
 * While it's not unheard of for a press release to copy a favorable review, given the fact that the press release doesn't name the review, I am inclined to agree that it's likely that the artemagazine.it article is heavily based off promotional material, perhaps even the press release before it was published on presswire.com. Even assuming, arguendo, that the two remaining sources are completely independent, I find them insufficient to meet WP:GNG or WP:NARTIST and change my !vote to delete accordingly.07:18, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * (Reply to Special:Diff/957722614) The point is moot as I've already changed my !vote, but I disagree with this sentiment. Continuing your analogy, the proper course of action would not be to throw away the entire pint of strawberries, but to throw away the rotten and eat the fresh. The proper course of action on Wikipedia would be to remove the promotional content and rewrite the article in accordance with RS. (See Throw the baby out with the bath water.) userdude 07:18, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Also, as an aside, you're entirely within your right to change your comment before anyone else replies (WP:REDACTED), but I ask that you note your change in edit summary instead of saying "ce" in your summary when you actually made material changes. (Special:Diff/957719532, Special:Diff/957719795). Thanks, userdude 07:26, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Re #3: Ah, that makes sense. I originally misread the disclaimer at the bottom as only referring to the credit for the image. userdude 23:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

So I'm quite comfortable saying that none of this rises to N. Theredproject (talk) 14:29, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Promocruft that doesn't meet GNG or NARTIST. To engage the second list of maybe not unreliable sources, none of the exhibitions are significant. While I can't find clear evidence that they re pay-to-play, they certainly aren't signficant:
 * http://artemonaco.com/ - an insignificant art fair put on by this company http://opuseventi.com/. It is *not* the very significant artmonte-carlo fair.
 * BIENNALE D’ART MONTECARLO appears to be a 2 day long open call exhibition put on in a hotel https://www.latelaccia.it/en/bienn-2016/ by a random gallery from Milan https://www.latelaccia.it/9-biennale-darte-internazionale-a-montecarlo-2020/
 * The exhibition at La Barclays Bank di Monte Carlo was "organizzata e promossa" (organized and promoted) by "Heart Monaco Fine Art" which only appears on the internet in a handfull of promotional results for this Barclays show. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Heart+Monaco+Fine+Art%22
 * Also, that Arte Magazine article has no byline: "Scritto da Redazione". This is often a sign that something is press release copypasta. Thought it seems like many of their articles have that byline, so maybe this is more like a personal blog?Theredproject (talk) 14:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete Wikipedia is not supposed to be used for self promotion.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:02, 21 May 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.