Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chữ Hán




 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. After much-extended time for discussion, there is a clear absence of a consensus to delete, and a reasonable argument that the article has improved substantially to be kept per WP:HEY. BD2412 T 03:26, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Chữ Hán

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

The page is a dictionary entry for a Vietnamese term for 'Chinese characters' that is not used in English. Any content is already covered by Chinese characters, Literary Chinese in Vietnam and History of writing in Vietnam (to which this was formerly a redirect). Recommend restoring the redirect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanguole (talk • contribs) 11:43, 16 September 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:21, 23 September 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:35, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Language, China,  and Vietnam.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:43, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Don't delete. I'm not sure whether this should be kept or merged/redirected, but it's a reasonable search term and the topic is discussed at History of writing in Vietnam, so it shouldn't be deleted. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 05:42, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to History of writing in Vietnam, where the system can be succinctly described and is the most relevant target. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:16, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Don't delete. I think chữ Hán is a reasonable article to have as its usage in Vietnamese is different from Chinese enough to warrant its own article, just like how Japanese has it's Kanji article and Korean it's Hanja article. I added sections on character readings, types of characters, simplification of characters, and symbols to the article which are not present in History of writing in Vietnam nor is it present in Literary Chinese in Vietnam. Lachy70 (talk) 02:04, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The article Literary Chinese in Vietnam is already specifically about the usage of Classical Chinese in writing from Vietnam. If there is material about Classical Chinese in Vietnam that you feels is not covered, you can add/merge material there. — MarkH21talk 11:36, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * You know that Chữ Hán and Văn ngôn (classical Chinese as Vietnamese call it) are two different terms, right? From your point of view kanji shouldn't have a separate article because kanbun already mentioned it Taolabomay (talk) 06:08, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The types of characters part is just Chinese character classification with Sino-Vietnamese readings, which is not surprising, as these characters were all created in China and used unchanged in Vietnam. There's a bit borrowed from Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary, but most of the rest is not about Chữ Hán at all, being about Chinese loans to Vietnamese in the last few centuries or the Chữ Nôm writing system for Vietnamese. Kanguole 20:10, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * "The types of characters part is just Chinese character classification with Sino-Vietnamese readings, which is not surprising, as these characters were all created in China and used unchanged in Vietnam." Of course, these characters are Chinese characters, that is why they are called chữ Hán (Hán = Chinese) in Vietnamese. The Kanji article also mentions this classification. The sections about Chinese loans are relevant since they are talking about readings for Chinese characters. There are multiple readings for characters, so it is necessary to talk about it. The usage of Chinese characters in Vietnam is not identical when compared to Chinese. It is not like Chinese where there is usually only one reading for a character and that reading does not change the meaning. Chữ Hán typically has Hán and Nôm readings, this can be compared to Kun'yomi, On'yomi, and Ateji readings in Japanese. Some chữ Hán characters were simplified into characters that are used for the Nôm readings, so I think it was relevant to talk about some simplification of characters. Since it involved chữ Hán, some mentions chữ Nôm is relevant since the two scripts were used together to write Vietnamese. Lachy70 (talk) 20:59, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to Literary Chinese in Vietnam (second alternative would be Redirect to History of writing in Vietnam). The article Literary Chinese in Vietnam already covers the scope that this article describes; the only distinction being made here is that this article is specifically about the characters while Literary Chinese in Vietnam is about both the characters and the writing. But Literary Chinese in Vietnam isn't a very long article, so any material about the characters can easily be placed there. — MarkH21talk 11:36, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to Literary Chinese in Vietnam.4meter4 (talk) 04:03, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Don't delete. Just because you don't use the term Chữ Hán in English doesn't mean there are no users, according to your point, Chữ Nôm shouldn't have a separate article either because there's no one called Chữ Nôm in English, most of them are called Nom script. Chữ Hán is one of the oldest writing systems in Vietnam, so there must be a separate article on this term. Please do not delete Taolabomay (talk) 06:24, 7 October 2022 (UTC) — Taolabomay (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Don't delete. This term should have a separate article Choixong di (talk) 18:08, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * See WP:NOTDICT. Kanguole 20:10, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a term that needs its own article, you know? The information you want to show me doesn't seem very relevant Choixong di (talk) 05:15, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge As per MarkH21. MrsSnoozyTurtle 07:07, 8 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Don't delete. Firstly, Chữ Hán is the localized version of the Chinese character in Vietnam similar to Hanja of Korea and Kanji of Japan, of course all localized versions will have differences in usage compared to Chinese characters original. Secondly, Literary Chinese in Vietnam is an article about the Vietnamese version of Classical Chinese (Văn ngôn), the fact that they are related does not mean that they are the same, if you consider they are the same then Kanji should be combined with Kanbun, not divided into two articles because all the content is available in the Kanbun. Third, the History of writing in Vietnam is just an article that summarizes the writing systems that have been used in Vietnam from the past to the present, that article only gives a brief introduction to the different types of characters writing is used in Vietnam, without going into the terminology. So please don't delete Chữ Hán articles.
 * Suoperidol (talk) 16:20, 8 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:HEY. The article originally was little more than a dicdef, but it has been improved significantly (kudos to Lachy70) and this assertion no longer applies. The other offered reasons for deletion are not convincing; the topic is an encyclopedic one as shown by the present sourcing, and I would expect it could continue to develop beyond the scope of History of writing in Vietnam similar to Hanja and Kanji as cited previously. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  19:23, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Article appears to have been vastly improved, with content that indicates that it merits its own article. While undoubtedly it is a set of Chinese characters, it is also sufficiently different in its usage in Vietnam for it to warrant its own separate article (the character for Chữ (𡨸) itself very much indicates the usage difference from standard Chinese). It can stand alongside articles like Hanja and Kanji that describe the use of Chinese characters in other East Asian countries. Hzh (talk) 00:40, 9 October 2022 (UTC)


 * ''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.