Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Characters in the Realm of the Elderlings


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Robin Hobb bibliography. There is strong argument in favor of merging this into an article about the fictional setting; consensus here would support retargetting if and when such an article is created. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:48, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Characters in the Realm of the Elderlings

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

A totally unreferenced list that fails WP:NLIST (and as an article, obviously fails WP:GNG), the main article for the series (world? Articles for deletion/The Realm of the Elderlings) was deleted over 10 years ago (and those were the times WP:FANCRUFT was not challenged as much as today...). We do have articles for subseries (The Farseer Trilogy and latter four more series: Liveship Traders Trilogy, The Tawny Man Trilogy, while The Rain Wild Chronicles and Fitz and the Fool Trilogy are just redirects). Frankly, the best option might be to (re)create the entry for the metaseries (The Realm of the Elderlings), IF it can be shown to be encyclopedic. Another might be to add some content about characters to the articles on individual series, for some reason The Farseer Trilogy is GA while simultaneously missing a section about characters (an oversight in other articles, perhaps related to the existence of the list currently discussed here; ping editors who worked on said recent GA: User:David Fuchs, User:Olivaw-Daneel). PS. Full disclaimer: I recently redirected unreferenced Places in the Realm of the Elderlings to the The Realm of the Elderlings, where I then restored a redirect too. I'll also ping User:Pburka and User:Kvng who may be interested in this topic but I am not sure if they watchlist this article of delsort lists. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:26, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy,  and Literature. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  03:26, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  03:26, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting. Delete, Keep, Merge, Redirect, the only thing clear here is that there is no consensus thus far. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:32, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect. I don't think there's enough sourcing to support Characters in the Realm of the Elderlings and would redirect it (possibly to ). Other comments: GAs do not require a character list. See MOS:CHARACTERS: "Most articles do not need this section. Instead, a finely crafted plot summary is used to introduce the characters to the reader." I doubt if The Farseer Trilogy would benefit from such a section, as it has just one primary character. On the other hand the Liveship Traders has 7–8 POVs, so I can see how a character glossary would help there. Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 06:17, 18 August 2022 (UTC) (updated 07:29, 25 August 2022 (UTC))
 * @Olivaw-Daneel We are a bit off topic here, but I'd suggest adding a note to Farseer that there is just one major character somewhere. Frankly, even a short section on characters saying so, with some analysis of the main character, would be good there (if sources exist). If I was a GA reviwer I'd likely make such a request. Just saying. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:03, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge/Keep. I support @Piotrus's proposed option to "(re)create the entry for the metaseries (The Realm of the Elderlings)," possibly even as a stub, and merging this article into it.  However, if that does not happen, I would support keeping this article, despite the numerous flaws that are accurately described above. See Inclusionism. Lwarrenwiki (talk) 12:14, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect - The current article fails both GNG and LISTN. It can maybe be salvaged to merge, but that can be decided at a late time. TTN (talk) 13:01, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * No sources make any merge difficult per WP:V... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 14:32, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep somehow, if only for the sake of us who have read the entire pile of books . - DVdm (talk) 14:58, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. There are definitely sources out there to write more about the Realm of the Elderlings, and I'd support restoring that article to at least list the dozen or so books and stories that make up the series. I was surprised to find academic sources such as "Bringing Dragons Back Into the World: Dismantling the Anthropocene in Robin Hobb's Realm of the Elderlings", "PATRIARCHY UNDER SCRUTINY Tracing Feminist Discourse in Hobb’s The Realm of the Elderlings", "Lire l'illisibilité identitaire:(en) jeux du détournement du genre dans The Realm of the Elderlings de Robin Hobb" and "Premik od tradicionalne ženske vloge v likih Robin Hobb v The Farseer trilogiji in The Tawny Man trilogiji". pburka (talk) 22:27, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree that Realm of the Elderlings is feasible to write, although some of the sources you list are Masters theses and aren't suitable. I went through this search a year ago and have compiled the usable ones at . (I meant to write it at some point, but I had to take a break after expanding the trilogy pages. If anyone wants to, they're welcome to do so.) Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 00:16, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @Olivaw-Daneel The question of whether Masters sources are usable or not is interesting, but probably off topic. IMHO they are reliable (since they've been reviwed by the committee) but not necessarily sufficient for estabilishing notability of the topic, if other sources do not exist. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:49, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I was just going off of WP:SCHOLARSHIP, which is very explicit: "Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence." Olivaw-Daneel (talk) 04:59, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Masters' theses are a bit like Wikipedia: Not necessarily sufficient or reliable, but often a great place to find references to other, better scholarship. Jclemens (talk) 16:29, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete Fails WP:ALLPLOT - this information is more fit for FANDOM but would violate WP:INDISCRIMINATE in its current state. There is pretty much nothing salvageable here, as it is entirely WP:OR. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:54, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete or redirect per Zxcvbnm. Fails the WP:GNG, WP:ALLPLOT, WP:OR, and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. To resolve all these issues this article would need WP:SIGCOV in independent reliable sources with coverage about its reception and impact. None is included as none appears to exist. Jontesta (talk) 13:44, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete or Redirect to Robin Hobb bibliography. The article fails WP:GNG, WP:V, WP:ALLPLOT and WP:INDISCRIMINATE per and . Articles on the general topic of Realm of the Elderlings is plausible, as the master sources are interesting at least (not sure if they're notable) but this list, which is WP:FANCRAFT, WP:OR and meets WP:TNT isn't worth even merging, IMHO, although I'd be fine with a redirect. VickKiang (talk) 21:45, 30 August 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


 * Delete or redirect. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 16:49, 2 September 2022 (UTC)