Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Characters of Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus. I cannot in any good faith close this as "keep", as the article lacks any sources whatsoever, and is written entirely in an in universe manner. However, these issues were not raised as reasons for deletion to begin with, so cannot be used as reasonable justification to delete the article. Additionally, a number of the "keep" arguments are extremely weak - assertion of notability is meaningless if you are unwilling or unable to provide evidence of such. Given the great number of "keep" arguments, though, I think "no consensus" is best here. I suggest rewriting, and adding sources. Failure to do so may well result in the article being renominated for deletion fairly soon, as a "no consensus" close allows. Neıl ☎  15:19, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Characters of Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

 * - (View AfD) (View log)

Game guide material, also not appropriate for inclusion in Wikipedia per WP:TRIV and WP:L. Sticky Light 01:55, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete: Are all of these really important to the game? If some of them are, they should be merged here.  Either way, per the nom's reason, delete. - Rjd0060 02:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep: I disagree with the OP's assertion that this is a game guide, as does user CodeWranger, on the article's talk page.  Calling it a game guide suggests the article discusses strategy with readers, while this article does not.  And I hardly call a cast of characters trivia.  Nor do I see how this is a list violation.  -FeralDruid (talk) 07:02, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep: As FeralDruid said, I have set out my rebuttal to the OP in detail here on the article's talk page, so I will not repeat it here. To address Rjd0060's concerns: yes, all the characters described on this page play important roles in the game, although their importance will vary depending on choices made by the player. Merging into the main article for the game, as Rjd0060 proposes, is certainly a solution, but strikes me as making the main article rather unwieldy. I think the status quo is just fine here. - CodeWrangler (talk) 00:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, M ercury  02:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete, Wikipedia is not a game guide or collection of trivia. Ten Pound Hammer  • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 02:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep The listed material is not that which one might find in a game guide and goes far beyond trivia. Not to pull a "keep this because something like it exists", but this is no less encyclopedic than, for example, the lists of Shakespearean characters. -- Masterzora (talk) 03:11, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete completely unsourced, possibly WP:OR, and fails notability. Maybe merge the major vampire and playable into the main article, where the actual major, notable characters should be covered. The else is just minute game guide detail, which Wikipedia is not. AnmaFinotera (talk) 04:03, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Would oppose re-merge, as the Characters article was specifically split off from the main game article on June 6. -FeralDruid (talk) 06:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been added to the list of video game deletions. Someone another (talk) 09:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:PROBLEM. The above concerns can be alleviated easily. Generally, every story-focused game has enough real world information about the characters in the reviews on various reliable gaming websites to make a good article (or even featured - Characters of Final Fantasy VIII) out of such a list. This is a story focused game that has been reviewed by all major reliable gaming websites. User:Krator (t c) 09:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Weak keep and tag for notability. On one hand, this article does not establish notability and I can only guess if there is notability to begin with. On the other hand, quite a few video game character lists are GA and even FA, so I guess it's not completely unbelievable that notability can be established for these characters as well. – sgeureka t•c 11:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * keep or merge Most of these characters have appeared in the Masquerade's books and RPG as well. It would be horrible for this article to be deleted. Fangz of Blood 15:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per sgeureka. Needing improvement doesn't equate to needing deletion. Rray (talk) 19:04, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wholly lacking of reliable sourcing or evidence of notability.  Skimming the "article", appears to be a retelling of plot.  —   pd_THOR  undefined | 22:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. I agree the article needs work, but in my view it does not violate List or Trivia guidelines, which are not set in stone anyway, as stated on the appropriate MOS pages. 23skidoo (talk) 22:22, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. Article is essentially identical to many other role-playing game character lists, including things like List of Earthbound Characters, List of Halo Characters, a similar article for nearly every Final Fantasy game, etc. Deletion of this article would be an inconsistant and hypocritical application of notability policies. Mikeavelli (talk) 16:05, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - Copied info over to StrategyWiki:Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines/Characters. If this page is deleted please leave a message on my talk page so I can do a proper transwiki. -- Prod (Talk) 17:14, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep This appears to be a reasonable fork due to WP:SIZE. It is entirely possible that this list could be seriously compressed, and then it may be appropriate to merge back into the main article (the main article could probably use some cleanup too) but yeah, surmountable problem, afd is not cleanup, and afd is not needed for merge/redirect. -Verdatum (talk) 05:36, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.