Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charles Hiram Burnett Jr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Arguments in favor of keeping the article seem to be based on a misunderstanding of WP:POLITICIAN. Sources found subsequently have not demonstrated notability. I will honor requests to userfy the content. causa sui (talk) 18:38, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Charles Hiram Burnett Jr.

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Declined prod, subject fails POLITICIAN and seems to not be notable in the general sense. --Nuujinn (talk) 02:16, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Before hacking around on here you should learn how to do basic research. The information as to whether CHB Jr was a City Councilor was on the City Council site. Pikes Place Market is Seattle's major tourist attraction. http://www.seattle.gov/CityArchives/Facts/councilchron.htmRichardBond (talk) 02:49, 4 August 2011 (UTC) ThanksRichardBond (talk) 13:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep He clearly meets WP:POLITICIAN and any shortcomings in the current version of the article should be addressed though normal editing, rather than deletion.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  04:18, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  — I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 05:09, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions.  — I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 05:10, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that CIty Council membership or serving as "Acting Mayor" meets politician. As for cleanup, by all means go for it, it just doesn't look like it's worth the time to me (or I would have done it). I'd be happy to be wrong. --Nuujinn (talk) 10:22, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

He could not have been Acting Mayor if he were not senior City Councilor. He won an election in his district then won an election among other councilors. RichardBond (talk) 10:28, 4 August 2011 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle#Government_and_politics Nuujinn, I do not know where you are located but you would not have made an error like that if you were living in Seattle.RichardBond (talk) 13:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * City Council membership in a major metropolitan city does meet the standard for WP:POLITICIAN. It's point #2. Keep and cleanup. Meelar (talk) 19:47, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No, not automatically, as I read the policy: Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage.[7] Generally speaking, mayors of cities of at least regional importance are likely to meet this criterion, as are members of the main citywide government or council of a major metropolitan city. (note 7: Generally, a person who is "part of the enduring historical record" will have been written about, in depth, independently in multiple history books on that field, by historians. A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists....) So #2 says that a council member is likely to meet the criterion, but the criterion itself is significant press coverage. The Pike Place Market site is neither a reliable source nor is it significant coverage. The seattle gov site is just a list of council members, so again, no significant coverage. The Goldblatt text is not about the subject, it is about his son, and notability is not transferred to relatives. RichardBond, instead of claiming that what I would know about the subject if I were from Seattle (and I point out that what we know isn't relevant anyway), or making snarky comments about what I should do, I would suggest that you find some significant coverage in reliable sources. I took a crack at it twice in Google news archives, and no joy, but it's a common name and I didn't spend a lot of time with it since I see nothing in the article that suggests the subject is notable. As I said, I'd be glad to be proven wrong, and I don't have a personal stake in this particular debate, but until I see some sources, I'll be !voting:


 * Delete, per rant above, --Nuujinn (talk) 22:40, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,   Wifione    .......  Leave a message  03:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment Nuujinn is absolutely correct. Being a city council member of a major metropolitan area does not mean automatic notability. Additionally just being known in a local area (Seattle in this case) does not have/ rarely has any bearing. To Richard, I could conceivably talk about multiple people that were on the city council in Madison, but that doesn't mean I'd use it against you if you didn't/haven't heard of them.  It's a major metropolitan area here, but I don't honestly think an editor in say Thailand would give a flying rats patootie.  Also I would just add that for civility that accusing an editor of "hacking" around isn't necessarily the best way to about looking for support.  Just MHO.  tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 04:26, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The way I feel about it is that it is as you might feel if someone editing in Thailand were trying to remove a profile about a historic notable figure in Madison.RichardBond (talk) 05:34, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * re Hi Richard. I adjusted your post position as I assume it was a reply to my above comment.  Oh I certainly would feel slighted (perhaps even personally) if the person from Thailand were to say they were basing their deletion of the person from Madison's article on the basis that they had not heard of the Madisonian.  However if the deletion voter were basing their decision upon what they feel is a lack of RS due to the inability to find these sources and how they interpret WP:POLITICIAN (of a point thereof), as is the case here, then I would want to address those issues by providing the sources I'm seeing and my own interpretation of WP:POLITICIAN.  I AGF with myself that I would not see that as a personal matter.  I hope I would not imply that their viable concerns are simply a product of geography.  That's all I was trying to get at. tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 06:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I am withdrawing my "Keep" recommendation because I have been unable to find significant coverage in reliable sources, and other editors have also failed in their searches. My strong suspicion is that he is notable, but that the newspapers and books that covered him over 100 years ago haven't yet been digitized by Google.  Accordingly, we should wait until those sources can be found to have an article about him.  Otherwise, it is pretty much all original research and our credibility as an encyclopedia is more important than keeping this particular article.   Cullen 328   Let's discuss it  06:24, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete Cannot find reliable third party resources mentioning him in any notable way. I agree with Cullen that it is possible that it may stand to reason there are sources, (perhahps ISBNs?) that would do the trick, but I'm not finding them.   And for the record Richard the link you provided to elections in 2004 and such does absolutely nothing to establish Charles Hiram Burnett Jr. or even city councils members.  Please do not take this as a personal criticism.  I am personally assuming that the link was meant to point to something else.  As with Nuujinn I would like to be wrong.  LOL contrary to my AFD history I am actually an inclusionist by personality so I would greatly like to see us find better info and make this a real article.  However for this particular AFD I have to vote nay.  tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 07:07, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It would be useful if anyone in the Seattle area could take a trip to a local library to see about newspaper coverage or books published around the time he served in office. Paper endures nicely. --Nuujinn (talk) 09:46, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

The Seattle City website has a list of every city councilor and Charles H. Burnett is on it. I will take a look at the url and see what the reason is you could not find it. http://www.seattle.gov/council/ Search on Charles Burnett. One thing that does not help is his having the same name as his father. His father was City Treasurer. There is also an unrelated movie director. RichardBond (talk) 16:46, 16 August 2011 (UTC) I see a reference to him as Chairman of the annual conference of the American Poultry Association I do not think it helps much. I will keep lookingRichardBond (talk) 17:12, 16 August 2011 (UTC)http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=6a1XAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mvMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6507,57881&dq=charles-h-burnett+seattle&hl=en Verification of Seattle City Councilorship.RichardBond (talk) 17:28, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thx Richard for the links. I am not sure either why I was not finding that url.  I would like to point out though that while I do now see a source for him being on the council, IMO this does not confer automatic notability per WP:POLITICIAN.  I'm looking at the other links you have up and as time permits (a bit swamped here :{ ) I'll try to find better ones myself.  My main concern is I would really like to see this article survive.  To do so I am just an adherent to to trying to build as strong a foundation (starting point) as possible.  And of course upholding Wiki policy.  And we should try and be a bit more strict in these areas with political articles and especially those that are BLPS.  tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 06:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the subject died in 1941, so this isn't a BLP. But I agree in regard to sourcing, we really need to have significant coverage, and I still do not see any of that. --Nuujinn (talk) 10:13, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ha good call!! Lol don't know why I was saying BLP. Must've been thinking of another thing at the time.  As for more sources Richard said he would try to find some more and I'm inclined to give him some time to do so.  Especially if he had to go to a local library and find more local news coverage that we cannot do ourselves.  tyvm Pudge MclameO (talk) 21:59, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I would encourage userification, and you two can work on it as you find sources. --Nuujinn (talk) 23:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.