Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charles Kingston (Mormon)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Charles W. Kingston.  Sandstein  07:51, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Charles Kingston (Mormon)

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Per source searches, this subject has received no significant coverage in independent, reliable sources; just a few passing mentions. The article cites one primary source, but from searches, no usable sources to meet WP:BASIC appear to be available. North America1000 12:58, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. North America1000 12:58, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. North America1000 12:58, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. North America1000 12:58, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Utah-related deletion discussions. North America1000 12:58, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Please take some time to evaluate the sources that were presented earlier today.
 * Delete - Seems to be totally lacking WP:PSTS and WP:GNG. Deaddebate (talk) 03:18, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete However, the cited source is not "primary", but clearly secondary. It is an entry in a published encyclopedia. However not all encyclopedias use reasonable notability criteria, and this is true especially of some of Jenson's later volumes. It is clearly a secondary source though. However there is not enough to show that Kingston was notable. Counselor in a stake presidency alone does not confer notability. On the other hand I think Ward E. Pack, son of John Pack, who was conselor in a stake presdidency and mission president in Hawaii twice might pass because he was for one term in the Utah Territorial Legislature.see Legislative assembly rosters reference in p. 41, 45 I maybe should have kept with the article I drew up on him, but I was not sure. His successor in the legilsature, Samuel F. Atwood, whose daughter married Ward E. Pack's son, Ward E. Pack Jr. (I am descended from that marriage), served the next year (1877) for Summit County. They repeated this exchange of positions in 1878 and 1879. What is still not quite making sense is that according to other sources Pack was mission president in Hawaii from April 1876-April 1878.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:05, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep We ought to think, today, about how important this person was, in 1935 standards, when, during the Great Depression, he founded, for 1,200 members the Davis County Coop, which is now a redirect, see first source below, page 242. So we ought to ask the question, how would the media cover him in 2018? And at the time the media did cover him, and we have several secondary sources too. Per those sources he was the leader of a large community. The coop has been under scrutiny for different allegations, but this is a different story. If this is another Charles Kingston, I apologize. Also, see the second source, below, where there is an entire paragraph about the Kingston's clan, formed by Charles himself, embracing poligamy in 1931 and being extremely important as a clan in Utah. A third source has a whole page about his activities in early 1900s as an important community leader. The secondary sources actually abound, and I think this is more of a case where they need to make it to the article and enrich it, but as far as notability is concerned, I find the article clearly notable.--1l2l3k (talk) 18:33, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- RoySmith (talk) 01:15, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Analysis of the sources listed directly above by User:1l2l3k:
 * Mormonism: A Historical Encyclopedia – consists of three short sentences related to Kingston. This is not significant coverage.
 * Changing World Religions, Cults & Occult – this is a book published by a person named Jerry Stokes. It appears to be self published, and is not a reliable source
 * William F. Cody's Wyoming Empire: The Buffalo Bill Nobody Knows – has around two paragraphs of information about Kingston.
 * – I am still not convinced that WP:BASIC is met, which requires significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. North America1000 13:15, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Still delete, or merge?
 * Merge content into Charles W. Kingston, the son, who has notability and keep redirect to show in talk page the result of this AFD discussion. --1l2l3k (talk) 16:12, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge content into Charles W. Kingston, fils, as per WP:PRESERVE.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:34, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   08:55, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Additional source Kingston Journey: Insiders to Outcasts; Polygamous clan clings to its vision of LDS life; Kingstons Cling to Vision Of LDS Lifestyle, Greg Burton, The Salt Lake Tribune; 16 Aug 1998: A1. excerpt from text of article about a contemporary grpup of polygamous led by Kingston descendants:  "The great-grandfather of John Daniel and David Ortell Kingston -- whose alleged acts of incest and child abuse have brought a national spotlight on polygamy in Utah -- was a leader in the Mormon Church who helped colonize Wyoming.... Charles Kingston, a high priest in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was appointed by President McKinley to be a Wyoming land commissioner. Kingston abhorred LDS Church President Wilford Woodruff's manifesto of 1890 announcing an official end to plural marriages. He also believed Utah's leaders turned their backs on the faithful in 1896 by prohibiting polygamy -- then a bedrock tenet of the Mormon religion -- to join the United States."  Articles also confirms Kingston's appointment by Pres. McKinley, and details of son's life.  I think this, along with the fact that he has an entry in that Mormon Encyclopedia, and Cody book, gives us more than enough for a MERGE to the son's article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:58, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The appointment by McKinley is a very, very minor one, not at all a sign of notability. The mention of Ardis and Reeves encyclopedia does not amount to sustained major coverage of this individual.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:33, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Merge into Charles W. Kingston. Deaddebate (talk) 02:05, 12 August 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.