Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charlie Souza


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Delete. Enough notability to avoid speedy, but issues raised of lack of non trivial RS citations make it impossible to keep. Dweller (talk) 12:57, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Charlie Souza
I am realizing that links like You Tube are not allowed but do contain information which verifies this article. We are dilengently searching for more "verifiable" links to adhere to Wikipedia's standards. :) I Do not wish to have this deleted. It is all true and verifiable through sources such as the following. Organizing [direct links http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/music/artist/credits/0,,495680,00.html] currently. We have removed all external links in the text and placed a few external links under the heading: external links. I see that is being done on other pages. Am I on the right track? Thanks, Charlie :)
 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Biography created by user:Charliesouza. Is he notable? &mdash; RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 01:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Non-notable, meets A7. So tagged. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone  02:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:N. Masterpiece2000   ( talk ) 02:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Speedy declined asserts notability with having recorded for Myrrh Records, Fantasy Records. However, this will require verifiable sourcing. I have not found independent sourcing for these claims. (Allmusic did not confirm assertions made.). Sourcing appears to be entirely from sites controlled by the subject. The article requires careful reading as it is convoluted and drops a lot of names.   Dloh  cierekim  02:43, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have notified the article creator of this discussion. Cheers,  Dloh  cierekim  02:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure if this mention on the Florida Music Hall of Fame indicates notability or not. The invitation to email in the name of someone that belongs on the list causes me to doubt.] Dloh  cierekim  03:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The email was for the "Music Honor Roll", not to be a member of the "Hall of Fame". Bubba73 (talk), 01:29, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * And FWIW, the official White Witch website mentions him on these two pages: page 1 and page 2. Bubba73 (talk), 01:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This entry] suggests he is not signed with a major label or "one of the more important indie labels".  Dloh  cierekim  03:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I can confirm that he did record with White Witch (band) on Capricorn Records, and I know he was with the Tropics and they released some records. Bubba73 (talk), 00:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Bubba. However, we need published sources in the media-- see WP:V and WP:RS. Personal testimonials are not sufficient. Cheers,  Dloh  cierekim  01:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Does his name printed on the CD insert count? Bubba73 (talk), 01:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.   --  brew  crewer  (yada, yada) 15:32, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Weak delete, no reliable sources that I can find. I can be persuaded to change my mind.   Corvus cornix  talk  23:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I found just a mention as I searched Google News archives, but it does confirm that he was a bassist with Tom Petty. When I searched a different database, I found a 1999 article in the Tampa Tribune ("Reunited band turns back clock 30 years", Curtis Ross, 11 May 1999, p. 6) which is a full article about Souza's band The Tropics—"one of the Bay area's most popular bands in the '60s" according to the article. A similar article is Blank, C. "'60s band reunites for benefit", St. Petersburg Times, 7 May 1999, p. 14. I think this justifies a keep although it might be that The Tropics (band) would be the more appropriate place for this content. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 03:59, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Mostly local notability, unless the work with Tom Petty does the trick? Dloh  cierekim  04:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No that does not do it. It's a small blurb about the New Tropics. Local notability. No charts. No awards. No national tours that I saw. Don't see this meets WP:MUSIC, unless reliable sourcing for the Indie labels can be found.  Dloh  cierekim  04:04, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not a "strong keep", that's for certain. I was arguing purely on the basis of WP:MUSIC criterion #1, not the others, and it has no stipulation that the reliable sources cannot be local media. The articles in the Tampa Tribune and the St. Petersburg Times are 401 words and 773 words respectively, both about The Tropics, and the second one mentions Souza's past work with Tom Petty. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 04:21, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not word count so much as "significant media coverage." These are mentions in Tampa Bay Area papers. No mentions otherwise? None outside of Florida? If no, then "not significant." Cheers,  Dloh  cierekim  13:19, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that is your own definition of "significant", not the definiton from Wikipedia's guidelines: "Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, and no original research is needed to extract the content. There is no requirement that the media coverage be national or international. Don't get me wrong; I do agree that having national media coverage provides a stronger argument for notability. But "local coverage" is not to be completely discounted, at least according to WP:N and WP:MUSIC #1. You could propose a change, if you like, at WT:N. Paul Erik  (talk) (contribs) 15:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Delete. Vanity article.--CyberGhostface (talk) 16:03, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * From WP:COI: "Avoid using the word "vanity" or similar judgmental terms — this is accusatory and discouraging. It is not helpful, nor reason to delete an article. Assuming good faith, start from the idea that the contributor was genuinely trying to help increase Wikipedia's coverage." Bubba73 (talk), 23:07, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine. Autobiography, if that's more neutral. It comes down to the same for me anyway.--CyberGhostface (talk) 23:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify my position-- Neutral. I suspect subject meets WP:Music but have not yet seen compelling WP:V of more than local notability. I would like to see a major label or one of the indies listed in the article. A national tour. The articles cited do not provide reliable sourcing that the subject meets WP:Music. Just getting mentioned in the papers does not make someone notable.  Dloh  cierekim  02:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.