Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Charon (software)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 03:15, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Charon (software)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Non notable emulation software, the article does not mention any relevant source. The article also is written in a scientific and may be too technical for most readers to understand. I tried to find any notable source for the article, but no academical or publication coverage could be found. Eduemoni↑talk↓  06:03, 27 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - Firstly, the article is not written in a scientific manner. Secondly, an article that is too technical for most readers is not a reason for deletion. If it is, I would like to see a policy or guideline that says so. Regarding notability, I'll look for references. Rilak (talk) 22:42, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * After doing a few Google searches, and looking at the references listed in the article, I am unsure as to what the best course of action is, but keeping the article is a very unlikely option.
 * Firstly, the Find sources template should not be used as the topic is not called Charon (software). It's called Charon (when referring to the family of products), and the three members are called Charon-AXP, Charon-11, and Charon-VAX (AXP, 11, and VAX refers to the Alpha, PDP-11, and VAX architectures, respectively. Search queries should be constructed from the above terms if a proper search is to be done.
 * Secondly, the nominator's claim that the article does not have any relevant sources is questionable. The fourth reference is an article hosted by Stromasys, the developers of Charon. While it is hosted by Stromasys, the article is a reprint of article in iX, a monthly German magazine for IT professionals published by Heinz Heise (Oliver Muller, "Neue Heimat", iX, Sep. 2010, pp. 99–102, https://www.heise.de/artikel-archiv-ix/2010/9/99 &mdash; subscription is required unless one were to view the reprint). I can't read German, so I cannot evaluate the article properly, but its title is "New Home" (which makes sense as an emulator runs software for historical computers on new ones), and it appears non-trivial, with benchmarks executed on both the emulator and the original hardware. Even if this article is relevant, however, I do not believe it alone can establish notability, but I do think that a mention of Charon-VAX can be made somewhere, perhaps at VAX.
 * Coverage of Charon in English sources is trivial. In a July 5, 2005 article by Patrick Thibodeau titled "VAX Users See the Writing on the Wall" in Computerworld (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/94314/VAX_Users_See_the_Writing_on_the_Wall) there is a brief mention of Charon-VAX as a migration option for retired VAX, which the articles states was a popular series of computers.
 * In a 2000 paper by Seamus Ross of the University of Glasgow titled "Changing Trains at Wigan: Digital Preservation and the Future of Scholarship" presented the at Warwick II Conference (which I can find nothing about, but according to Google, the paper has been cited 37 times), on page 19, there is a paragraph discussing the virtue of emulation as a means of providing long-term access to historical hardware and software for research. The paragraph continues on to page 20, where the last sentence says "Other well known emulations and simulations include ...PDP-11[103]..." Footnote 103 lists well-known PDP-11 emulators including Charon.
 * In Schaum's Outline of Computer Science, on page 49, Charon-VAX is mentioned as an emulator for the popular VAX series of computers. There is also a conference paper from the International Automatic Testing Conference regarding what appears to be the migration of a VAX-based system to one based on Charon-VAX. Rilak (talk) 01:22, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - In my opinion the article should be remained as I found some relevant sources. Although I found this on the company´s website I think it is important: Gartner considers processor emulation as one of the two very separate use models – apart from creating low-end models - for allowing legacy applications, written for older architectures, to be deployed on newer platforms. Transitive Corporation (which was acquired by IBM in 2008) and Stromasys are considered by Gartner as the most mature vendor examples (see http://www.stromasys.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/media/Gartner_Hype_Cycle.pdf.)

What is more, CHARON-VAX and CHARON-AXP are officially supported by Hewlett-Packard, as owner of the OpenVMS and Tru64 OS (see http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/sri-charon-vax-emulator.html?) and Oracle, as owner of Oracle RDB (see http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/database/rdb/charon-vax-097107.html)

More articles about CHARON can be found on the most important forum for OpenVMS e.g. openvms.org (see http://www.openvms.org/search.php?query=charon&what=stories&limit=100)

If the article can not be kept, please advise what queries should be constructed for the articles about VAX, AlphaServer, OpenVMS and Tru64 as the CHARON software is emulating OpenVMS and Tru64 applications from PDP-11, VAX and/ or AlphaServer to x86 IT architecture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tanja.Semet (talk • contribs) 12:23, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:36, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 00:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Keep. The software is a leader in a very specialised field on a limited number of platforms. It is possible to take references from sites such as Oracle.com which recommend its use for specialised situations.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 12:44, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Being a leader, being listed on Oracle's website, or even being the kewlest thing since sliced bread is meaningless in the context of meeting the guidelines for inclusion. According to the WP:GNG, this package doesn't pass.  No significant coverage from independent 3rd party sources to verify.  Dennis Brown (talk) 20:40, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Tanja.Semet (talk) 13:38, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. What about the Gartner report, the OpenVMS forum and the magazine? In my oponion these are independet parties. The Gartner report says CHARON emulators are the most important emulators for DEC systems. Many companies and government departments like ABB or the Canadian Department of National Defense use OpenVMS and use CHARON emulators. So I think the article fulfils the qualifications.

Keesekuchen (talk) 11:52, 7 April 2011 (UTC)
 * keep. On http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_system_emulators there are many emulators not linked. Maybe the contribution about Stromasys/CHARON should be re-written in a more product type way like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QEMU or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_(emulator) to complete this list.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.