Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chester Evans


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Since no reliable sources have been provided showing the subject being covered directly and in detail, as is required by our notability policies, the subject is found to not be notable. &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 00:38, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Chester Evans

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Non-notable judoka. There is no indication he ever competed at the highest level of his sport. He fails all of the notability criteria for martial artists at WP:MANOTE and lacks the significant independent coverage required by GNG. The only articles that mention him are in local papers. He is not mentioned at all at Judoinside.com even though he supposedly competed at some of the events listed. At the very least he had no notable successes. I don't think being on the all Marine judo team is enough to show notability.Mdtemp (talk) 19:49, 24 February 2015 (UTC) CrazyAces489 (talk) 20:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep During an era of discrimination, Chester succeeded as an African American Vietnam veteran and member of a US National Team thus meets Meets Meets WP:ATHLETE. Judoinside is a good source but is definitely an incomplete source.  Chester has a lot of notable success including a member of the US National Team in Judo and participated in four Olympic Training Camps. Chester would participate in 7 CISM games.

Passes MANOTE by either being (1) Subject of an independent article/documentary,  (3) Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion). The high ranking rationale that you stated for deletion for a number of them applies when ... "Only achievement seems to be that they teach an art (or founded a non-notable art); perhaps also avoid even mentioning them in the article of the art unless they are one of a few high-ranked artists in an art that has thousands of students." Judo has hundred of thousand practitioners.CrazyAces489 (talk) 20:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete. I see no evidence that the subject satisfies WP:MANOTE. Local and non-independent articles are not the type of coverage envisioned by criterion 1. His participation in Olympic Training Camps and International Military Sports Council tournaments does not constitute either being a "repeated medalist" (criterion 4) nor a world-championship-level competitor (criterion 3). And, indeed, although judo has hundreds of thousands of students, this subject is not, relative to the art as a whole, a high-ranked artist (the article seems confused whether he's 5th or 6th dan, but such ranks are not uncommon). Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 21:40, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * comment He was a member of the US National Team for Judo.  This is no small accomplishment. Remember Judo is an Olympic Sport and does not have a professional setting. So this is the highest that someone will get.  He was also a member of the US Marine Corp Judo Team.  He is a member of an initiative to regrow Judo on military bases via Team USA.


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 22:43, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And yet somehow he doesn't show up as a competitor in anything at JudoInside.com.Mdtemp (talk) 23:53, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Judoinside isn't complete. It is still building up its database.  This is a good example of a national champion whom doesn't even have his date of birth listed.  http://www.judoinside.com/judoka/55016  They do ask for submission help if a person knows information.   CrazyAces489 (talk) 00:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * comment In 1985 Chester would be a member of the US National Team in Judo. Chester would earn the Senior Nationals, Masters Tournament 1st. Place: 1988 3rd. Place: 1989. CrazyAces489 (talk) 04:29, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

CommentThe US National Team as shown above is notable. Many things are divided into subsections. Such as MEN and Women! Additionally the CISM games are especially notable international competition. CrazyAces489 (talk) 04:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Judo is an olympic sport is true and what that means is competing at the highest levels is taking part in either the World Championships or the Olympics.  In this context being a team member is a training designation and not notable.  Neither are medals in age limited competitions.  I don't even see his coaching career as being notable.  Can not really comment on the era of discrimination other than to say that it did not seem to prevent other African Americans from reaching the olympics.Peter Rehse (talk) 15:04, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * CommentYou should research racial discrimination in Judo. It still exists to this day.   It did prevent other African Americans from reaching the Olympics in that time!  How do I know? Well there was only 1 African American in the Olympics in the 1960's!  That was George Harris!  You can read this article to learn more.   Additionally, there Chester Evans was a national champion in Judo! a member of the US National Team.  He passes WP:BIO, WP:GNG and WP:MANOTE. CrazyAces489 (talk) 18:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Winning some senior titles does not show he's competed at the highest level. The references are from local papers ("Friends, Family, & Neighbors" section) which I believe are insufficient to meet GNG. The "Circle of 100" sounds impressive, but it's just a list of people who donated money to the U.S. Judo Team.  There's no evidence he was a member of "the" U.S. national team wold would have competed at the highest level of international competitions.  Being a member of "a" U.S. national team could be as a junior, a senior citizen, or a special subset such as military.  None of those would show he competed at the highest level (and there's no supporting evidence he even did that except for the autobiographical info submitted to "Circle of 100"). Papaursa (talk) 18:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * What national team did he compete on besides the military one? Papaursa (talk) 05:11, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * US Senior National Team. CrazyAces489 (talk) 05:37, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * comment 1988 – 2000 National Police Team Member – Santo Domingo 1988 – 2000 Dominican Republic Team Member 1988 – 2000 Gold – National Championship (Santo Domingo) 1988 – 1995 Gold – Military Games (Santo Domingo) 78kg and Open weight classes 1991 Participant – Pan-Am (La Habana, Cuba) 1991 Participant – World Championship (Barcelona, Spain) 1993 Bronze – Pan-Am Games (Ponce, Puerto Rico) CrazyAces489 (talk) 05:45, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm confused how an American serviceman was competing on the Dominican Republic national team when he was 50. Are you sure you're not confusing him with someone else?
 * Omar Cook is an African American who played on the national team for Montenegro. CrazyAces489 (talk) 11:32, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Irrelevant. Can you produce some sources that show Chester Evans competed at the 1991 world championships and won a bronze at the 1993 Pan-Am games (especially since there were no Pan-Am games in 1993)? There doesn't seem to be any sources that connect Chester Evans to the competitions listed in the previous comment. Papaursa (talk) 02:43, 10 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:ATHLETE, WP:GNG, and WP:MANOTE. JudoInside.coom lists 96,000 judoka and results from 10,000 events yet somehow he fails to show up in any results. The coverage is passing mentions or from local papers so I don't believe he meets the GNG. So far no one has shown any evidence he ever competed at the highest level.204.126.132.231 (talk) 21:46, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * commentJudoinside is 100% not complete! Many people don't have key information and events.  It is still growing! Think about this, John Watts (judo) competed in the 1972 Olympics but his complete record isn't even remotely listed in Judoinside. .  His results in the 1967 is shown in black belt magazine, but not in the Judoinside CrazyAces489 (talk) 05:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * commentPlease look at WP:MANOTE "Subject of an independent article/documentary" -, and "Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion)" - He was also a member of the US National Team.

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * keep by WP:Athlete and WP:GNG.24.103.234.74 (talk) 20:49, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 00:40, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete No sources to support claims of being a notable martial artist. I'm with those who claim winning a two old person division is not enough. I don't see the coverage I think is needed to meet WP:GNG. 131.118.229.17 (talk) 22:41, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * comment There are numerous medals outside of the "two old person divisions" That are listed as well as the qualifications for WP:MANOTE including independent article as well as winner of multiple medals in a black belt division.  Which is what he has, so he meets WP:GNG CrazyAces489 (talk) 04:25, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You need to source these claims. When I look at the 1993 Pan-Am championships (which are different from the Pan-Am Games) I see no record of either event taking place in 1993. Judoinside.com also has no record of the World Military championships being held in 1995.  Without sources, it looks like you're either making things up or confusing events.  There needs to be documented evidence of meeting WP:GNG or WP:MANOTE and I would say right now there is neither. Papaursa (talk) 22:13, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Judoinside is incomplete. I am willing to remove the 1993 Pan-Am's.  I saw a source for it somewhere.  Here are some records for you, ,   CrazyAces489 (talk) 23:09, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * What source do you have for claiming he was the U.S. national senior champion in 1968? He didn't even joined the Marines until a year later and would have been competing as a junior (assuming he was even doing judo). Looks like another indication that your claims of his successes are exaggerated or wrong. Mdtemp (talk) 19:06, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, &mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 23:19, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * 'keep satisfies gng, and Comment. Criterion 4 says "4.Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament". 172.56.22.48 (talk) 13:49, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.