Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ching's Secret (4th nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. This was filed as the 4th nomination. Articles for deletion/Ching's Secret (3rd nomination) does not exist. (non-admin closure) — Sam Sailor 03:33, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Ching's Secret
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

I honestly wish this had been relisted as I missed listing my comments analyzing the listed sources, the 1 article listed is again simply PR, none of it actually substantial and I myself had speedied this as G11 with and I still consider this PR, none of this is actually convincing. SwisterTwister  talk  21:13, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:13, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:13, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:13, 8 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete. started off highly promotional, was then reduced to a stub overbalanced by the one decently sourced iter available, a negative incident. There is no basis for either this article, a purely directory stub, or the article as submitted.  DGG ( talk ) 02:37, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The book notes: "So here's a trick question: Which is the cuisine with a uniformly high pan-Indian appeal? In other words, which type of cuisine can now be found all across the country and has a uniform acceptance rate? ... Ajay Gupta, a food entrepreneur from Mumbai, had asked me the question about the truly pan-Indian cuisine. When he saw my confusion, his tongue-in-cheek but accurate answer was, 'Indian Chinese. Indian Chinese is popular as street food, restaurant fare, and now also at home, across the country, from Aizawl to Jaisalmer and from Leh to Quilon,' he chuckled. He should know, for Ajay has been selling the Ching's Secret brand of Chinese food products for fifteen years in India. When he launched the brand, he clearly saw the popularity of Chinese food in India. ... To add to the charisma of the brand, Ajay decided to explore one more aspect of the middle-class Indian kitchen. While the woman of the house wanted to be adventurous in her cooking, she had no idea what this entailed. For instance, most women were aware of Hakka noodles as one of the chief dishes of a Chinese meal, but not what went with it. Was it enough to have a sweet and sour vegetable? Was something more required? Ching's Secret found itself in the position of not merely an innovator, but a mentor. When one of the largest retailers in the country suggested that Ching's Secret present itself as a total solution, Ajay knew exactly what he should do. And since this retailer was a brand partner as well, Ajay got the freedom to represent all Chinese cuisine ingredients together on the shelf as a single section. Now the customer saw not Ching's Secret Hakka noodles in one aisle and Ching's Secret soya sauce in another, but the entire range together, at one single place. The power of suggestion became a multiplier in itself. The supermarket shelves 'told' the customer to buy sweet corn soup to go along with the main meal. Ching's Secret no longer stood for 'ingredients for Chinese cooking', but a do-it-yourself Chinese menu. The product range opened the door for any woman who wished to prepare a full Indian Chinese meal at home. No wonder the brand succeeded in the face of giants like Knorr and Maggi. The difference between them and Ching's was that while they offered a product, Ching's—the Chinese expert—offered a cuisine solution. Today the brand advertises on TV, was a sponsor for the popular reality show, Indian Idol, sells in both urban and rural markets and has a huge presence in all kirana stores, but Ching's Secret was probably the first mainstream brand in India that was built in modern retail stores and then moved to traditional retail. It successfully tapped into the access and depth of the large, self-service supermarkets, and capitalized on the growth these offered to its advantage. The mantra of Ching's Secret's success is now being replicated by other newage marketers ..."  The article notes: "When Ajay Gupta, promoter of Capital Foods, decided to sell instant noodles and soups under the brand name Ching’s Secret, many thought he wouldn’t be able to digest the diversification. ... So Ching’s has been positioned differently. Sensing that 90 per cent of Maggi’s sales comes from its ‘masala’-favoured pack, Ching’s went for the kill with Chinese-flavoured noodles. Gupta says he has seen people lapping up “Chinese pao bhajis” and Manchurian sweet corn in Mumbai’s Udupi restaurants. ... Ching’s is also targeted at people in the age group of 18-25 (as against Maggi’s target group of children only) who prefer spicy flavours and look at noodles as a full meal rather than just a snack. It was also felt that Ching’s needs to leverage the Chinese connection and one way to do that was through packaging. So the colour coding and the graphics were essentially meant to symbolize this." The article includes criticism of the company: "But his critics say he may remain just a small niche player. Says a senior executive of an FMCG company: “It’s just another brand with some initial novelty value. The problem will be how to sustain it. Some years ago, Gold Café, a coffee brand from Indodan Industries, had shocked Nestle by taking away market share. Today it is dead and gone”."  I found the author name from this articleWebCite. The article notes: "Other brands that may not have the huge money power of the multinational giants but which are piggybacking on the opportunity afforded by modern trade are Ching's Secret and Smith & Jones from Capital Foods and the Future Group's private label brand Tasty Treat. ... Ching's Secret has a long, hoary history trying to take on the might of Maggi nearly a decade and a half ago with a more traditional Chinese noodle offering. While this found no takers, it is still part of the arsenal at Capital Foods. The marketer is fielding both Ching's Secret as well as Smith & Jones, with the former aimed at a more youthful demographic. ... The masala flavour is being keenly contested by Captial Foods as well via its Smith & Jones brand. Ching's Secret is aimed at youth between ages 16-25, where there is a demand for something spicier. ... Apart from variants and positioning, most players acknowledge that trial is the ultimate moment of truth. HUL have 'food ambassadors' at modern retails outlets to encourage sampling. Ching's Secret has gone the college route to get closer to its youth demographic. 'We have sponsored a large number of college shows in the country last year and are also targeting the youth aggressively through Facebook,' says Gupta. The Ching's Secret community on Facebook has over 118,000 fans following the brand."  The article notes: "Consumer goods company Capital Foods, which sells the Ching's Secret instant noodles and Smith & Jones ketchup and masala noodles, has officially exited the noodles category post the Nestle Maggi controvery. The company says it had a marginal contribution from the noodles category to its total business and will restrict its focus to soups and sauces. The company has also shut down its Vapi plant which manufactured noodles. The company's founder chairman and managing director, Ajaay Guptal told ET that the controversy had affected the growth prospects of the category." <li> The article notes: "Capital Foods, a newly set up company, has launched Ching's Secret range of Chinese food ingredients all over the country. The brand was earlier selling only in Bombay. Capital Foods is promoted by American Dry Fruits, makers of Mother's Recipe pickles. Ching's Secret comprises of 14 products, made by importing technology from Singapore. The products are manufactured at the company's plant at Nashik in Maharashtra."</li> <li>The sources found by in Articles for deletion/Ching's Secret (2nd nomination).</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Ching's Secret to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 05:24, 9 August 2016 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * has cleaned up the article so that it is no longer promotional. Regarding concerns about the article's imperfections, Editing policy and Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. Cunard (talk) 05:24, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment - All of those are either trivial coverage links consisting of either interviews, news about their clients and customers (who wants to know about that....aside from investors and future clients), and other PR-speak such as talking about what their products are; regardless of those having "criticism" and being news publications, that's still not any actual substance for convincing the substantial improvements (to the levels of both a non-advert article but also a still substantially convincing article). SwisterTwister   talk  06:15, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The Random House–published book Supermarketwala: Secrets To Winning Consumer India is not "trivial coverage links consisting of either interviews, news about their clients and customers" or "other PR-speak". Nor are the other sources. Cunard (talk) 06:22, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "Ching’s is also targeted at people in the age group of 18-25 (as against Maggi’s target group of children only) who prefer spicy flavours and look at noodles as a full meal rather than just a snack....It was also felt that Ching’s needs to leverage the Chinese connection and one way to do that was through packaging. So the colour coding and the graphics were essentially meant to symbolize this" is only something a PR agent would care to add. The articles are essentially still about the company talking about itself like this and that's not substance. SwisterTwister   talk  06:30, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Material about the company's marketing practices does not invalidate the Business Standard article from establishing notability. It is valid, acceptable journalism to include discussion about a company's marketing practices in an article about the company. And the several pages of coverage about Ching's Secret in the Random House–published book Supermarketwala: Secrets To Winning Consumer India book make it a very strong source. Cunard (talk) 06:05, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Weak Keep: Some of these sources aren't trivial, some are substantive, and some aren't promotional. I don't feel strongly about it, but I'd like to give Cunard's argument the benefit of the doubt.  Nha Trang  Allons! 16:52, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak Keep – from sources I was able to access above and the quotations, seems to weakly meet WP:GNG. AGF about the sources I was unable to access. Here's another source from Aurora, a Pakistani "advertising, marketing and media magazine" that is published bi-monthly (more info). I wonder if more Middle-Eastern sources are available that I cannot access. Perhaps this could be someday merged to Capital Foods, for which I have found several sources that could be used to create an article. North America1000 09:49, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 00:32, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Weak keep The coverage is not great, but I believe there is just about enough to meet GNG. I previously cleaned this up so that it is no longer promotional. The fact that much of the coverage is negative is surely not a reason to delete: a corporation is not a living person, and if they are notable for failing a quality test, well that's not our problem. Also, I'm curious as to why this is listed as the 4th nomination, but only three are linked above...Vanamonde (talk) 08:21, 17 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.