Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chris Dale (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 13:16, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Chris Dale
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

See the deletion review for Sack Trick for the background and history to this nomination. Simply put, this musician is not notable. A previous, virtually unattended AfD was recently closed as no consensus, but this is no obstacle to a fresh AfD nomination. —S Marshall T/C 01:14, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —S Marshall T/C 01:14, 18 October 2020 (UTC)


 *  Keep or redirect - This article was nominated for AFD only a very short time ago, and this second nomination is bordering on being an abuse of process. Additionally, if this article can not be kept, it should be redirected to Tank (band). --Jax 0677 (talk) 02:35, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's an abuse of process, considering that you and the nominator were the only participants in the last AFD. I have no opinion on the notability of the subject at the moment, but the previous AFD wasn't much of anything. Hog Farm Bacon 04:15, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I have no issue with this AfD being relisted so soon, since it is intended to solve a problem identified at DRV and the last AfD. We could achieve the same discussion if we took the last AfD to DRV and had it relisted for lack of participation. &mdash; Charles Stewart (talk) 09:16, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment Except that I found my way here from DRV - and others did as well. Sadly this article will be Collateral damage as a result. Lightburst (talk) 16:21, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete - I just can't find anything that passes the NMUSICIAN or GNG bars. The sourcing in the article is all affiliated/unreliable, so it's useless. Additional coverage includes a couple passing mentions in Forbes, a passing mention in Blabbermouth, a passing mention in metalsucks, and then blogs and user-generated sources.  He's put out quite a bit of material, but nothing that seems to have caught much attention in RS (or non-RS, for that matter).  According to the article, he's been associated with six bands with articles, so a redirect would have major WP:XY issues.  With nowhere to redirect to, and no significant coverage in independent, reliable sources, I think this article has to go. Hog Farm Bacon 04:25, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wales-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 06:36, 18 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete I considered nominating this myself after doing research into the DRV and even ran a before search - I can find mentions of him, but not in reliable secondary sources, so he fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSICIAN. SportingFlyer  T · C  11:08, 18 October 2020 (UTC)


 * KEEP Clearly a considerable and notable contribution to his field. Yellowxander (talk) 11:35, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * According to which sources, please?—S Marshall T/C 11:51, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * The sources listed, such as Forbes, The Guardian. Am looking for more usable sources to see if worthwhile. Yellowxander (talk) 12:22, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * There's no source from Forbes. There's a self-published source hosted by Forbes.com, which is not a reliable source.  The Guardian ref doesn't mention Dale even as a namedrop; it's about a documentary that the article claims, with zero independent reliable sourcing despite the refbombing, that Dale's writings inspired. —Cryptic 13:19, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * KEEP — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hvwitt (talk • contribs) 20:35, 18 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Wikipedia, and thanks for making your first edit! We hope you like the place and decide to stay.—S Marshall T/C 20:39, 18 October 2020 (UTC)


 * KEEP — Preceding unsigned comment added by Poiuzt11 (talk • contribs) 09:11, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * And to you, also, welcome! How very remarkable it is that two brand new editors should use this AfD as a place to make their very first contributions.—S Marshall T/C 09:14, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete. One of the worst-sourced and most excessively padded biographies I have seen. There's really nothing out there of any weight. Guy (help! - typo?) 12:15, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete: Cant find anything that passes WP:GNG or WP:NMUSICIAN.  NonsensicalSystem (err0r?)(.log) 12:51, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete a failure of GNG. With musicians we do not go with GNG per se but with the slightly more stringent music bio rules and this is even less met.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:52, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Scream For Me Sarajevo looks potentially notable. Maybe recreate this title as a redirect there if someone cares to write the article, and if the current article's claims about Dale's connection to it can be reliably substantiated. —Cryptic 13:29, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It looks like that would pass WP:GNG with the reviews. I also found, which is the best source I've found on Dale specifically to date (possibly classified as an interview, but still), but I couldn't find anything else that wasn't just a mention with regards to him and the docko. SportingFlyer  T · C  16:26, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Surely SFMS should be covered under an article for Skunkworks (band) or Skunkworks discography, rather than as a separate article? Note that Skunkworks (band) currently doesn't have an article, being instead covered under Skunkworks (album).—S Marshall T/C 22:55, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
 * SFMS is an independent documentary, inspired by the attention gained by the memoirs of Chris, so he should not redirect to that. Also Skunkworks was not a band, it was an album by Bruce Dickinson, so he should also not redirect to that. the Sack Trick page and their albums were deleted due to lack of references - and that would work redirecting to the Chris Dale page as he is the band leader, writer and constant member but Chris redirecting to any other page wouldn't really make any sense imo. Yellowxander (talk) 16:21, 20 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:NMUSICIAN. Another option would be to Redirect and WP:SALT to prevent future recreation. It appears that some – let's say, outside influences – are determined to maintain this page despite no clear display of notability. KidAd   talk  22:58, 19 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Update - I've sourced maybe double the amount of references now, as requested by the banner. I'm not getting into an edit war with those on a power trip, you're going to do whatever you want. This article has been here for 10 years no problem and there are a FAR lot worse articles out there with barely any info, let alone referencing them. As a music researcher I go down plenty of rabbit holes with profiles such as this and they're very helpful indeed. I guess wiki has some kind of stance on musicians now as it's evident a lot of individuals are having their pages deleted lately. Oh well Yellowxander (talk) 09:29, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. No number of name drops, passing mentions, interviews, and unreliable sources add up to notability. That requires a substantial amount of reference material which is both independent and reliable. Reference bombing doesn't change that. Seraphimblade Talk to me 20:06, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. The article was recently blanketed with sources but unfortunately I'm not seeing which of those together would be considered significant coverage in multiple reliable, independent sources. (?) Per Hog Farm above, it's all passing mentions of the topic and little about Dale himself in specific. (not watching, please )  czar  01:51, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand what constitutes as independent if it has to be not from the subjects own source, ie website - which is obviously direct evidence anyway, yet an article on an independent website is still not independent enough? And this obsession about reliable - Why is an article going to be publishing false facts? I don't really understand what you're all crying about tbh. I've found independent reliable sources to cite a statement or fact - yet they're not independent or reliable enough. Some aren't about him only mention - well done, that's called a reference! Whatever, have fun, peace. Yellowxander (talk) 15:57, 22 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete Unless Dale has got articles about him specifically in Billboard or Rolling Stone, I can't see how we can write a neutral article about him. <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  20:29, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.