Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chris Nylstoch


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Despite substantial effort by one editor, no substantive evidence has been produced showing this individual meets GNG. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:10, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Chris Nylstoch

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WP:TOOSOON; fails GNG. Sources do not demonstrate significance of individual, and many of them do not even mention his name. Also assume that creator is closely connected to subject. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia talk  14:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 15:03, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 15:03, 16 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Note - The text below was copied from WP:ATD by User:Shunyatananda ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 23:23, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Alternatives to deletion
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 * WP:DEL#CONTENT
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 * Main page: Wikipedia:Editing policy
 * If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page. Vandalism to a page's content can be reverted by any user.


 * Disputes over page content are usually not dealt with by deleting the page, except in severe cases. The content issues should be discussed at the relevant talk page, and other methods of dispute resolution should be used first, such as listing on Wikipedia:Requests for comments for further input. Deletion discussions that are really unresolved content disputes may be closed by an uninvolved editor, and referred to the talk page or other appropriate forum.


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 * If an article on a notable topic severely fails the verifiability or neutral point of view policies, it may be reduced to a stub, or completely deleted by consensus at WP:AfD. The Arbitration Committee has topic-banned editors who have serially created biased articles.


 * Disagreement over a policy or guideline is not dealt with by deleting it. Similarly, issues with an inappropriate user page can often be resolved through discussion with the user. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shunyatananda (talk • contribs) 16 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Note - The comment below may constitute a vote by User:Shunyatananda ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 23:23, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 1. Sources clearly demonstrate the significance of the individual - perhaps you should spend a bit more time examining the reliable and valid sources such as music brains and National Library of Australia (etc)


 * 2. Instead of claiming that the sources don't name the subject - get to know all the many pseudonyms and project names before leaping to the blame.
 * First Example GOOGLE SCHOLAR mIS-SPELT NAME!!!! https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=nylstock&btnG=


 * The DiY ['Do it yourself'] Ethos: A participatory culture of material engagement
 * E Snake-Beings - 2016 - researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz
 * … (Dot eyes), Dave Surf, Ben Spiers, Daniela Catucci, Suzzanne McNair, Joe Citizen, Peter,
 * Duncan, and all my friends from Huia, Chris Nylstock, Simone Inkrot, Jo Williams, Elizabeth
 * from Berlin's Avant-Garden, EdwardGodsmyth.org, Adrienne …


 * 3. The claim that the article creator is closely connected with the subject is completely false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shunyatananda (talk • contribs) 15:21, 16 July 2020 (UTC)


 * His 'music brainz' site does not provide any information about him and simply states he has no releases, no associated works, and no events. Citing to a library that has a copy of a document he apparently wrote does not establish his notability. None of the sources do. Please see WP:GNG, WP:V, and/or WP:RS. Simply having his name listed on a website does not show that he warrants a Wikipedia article ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia talk  15:28, 16 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Note - The comment below is more discussion from User:Shunyatananda ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 23:23, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * 1. Accusation 1= His 'music brainz' site does not provide any information about him and simply states he has no releases
 * Refutation 1 -- https://musicbrainz.org/artist/f5059e52-df32-4404-8dc9-5b74116e9ab2/releases (There are countless releases, associated works and events and will be added to the desired databases as they are requeste and confirmed)


 * 2. Thankyou for yr suggestions Please see WP:GNG, WP:V, and/or WP:RS will address these one by one.


 * 3. Simply having his name listed on a website does not show that he warrants a Wikipedia article - so true! The composer's name isn't just 'listed' on multiple official sites - there are also interviews, reviews, videos and many other ways these sites address the composer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shunyatananda (talk • contribs) 16 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete - Above, Shunyatananda is trying very hard to prove that the musician is notable but can only show that he has been listed in various places. In addition to the various Wikipedia policies that El Cid has listed correctly, I will also point out WP:SIGCOV, which says that any source mentioning the subject should not only be reliable, but the coverage therein should also be significant. Yes, we can see that the musician (under whatever spelling of his name) has been listed as present at various events, credited for appearing on various releases, mentioned in passing amongst other people, etc. etc. But not a single one of his media mentions in reliable sources are significant, and his name basically appears in some lists. Those lists might be connected to notable things, but the musician does not gain notability by association. So he's a DIY guy who appears to be making an honest living bouncing around various creative industries. Good for him, but he's still not notable. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 23:35, 18 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment - Hello Doomsdayer, thankyou for your contribution. "Just appears on some lists" is completely incorrect, perhaps you haven't read through the sources properly. One example is source 16 which links to a Phd dissertation that has a whole chapter/section covering the work of Nylstoch's collaborations and novel contributions to the field of expanded cinema. This is one of two different postgraduate papers from different universities, both completely independent of the subject. As you can see in the external links and throughout the article, Nylstoch is not D.I.Y as claimed - his work is released internationally and signed to various labels such as Magic Crowbar, BDTD, Pulled Out etc (owned by other people and therefore not D.I.Y) Another example is an international mention from Christchurch Polytec music faculty Dr Derrick who describes Nylstoch as 'one of Australias leading experimentalists along with Jon Rose (who is also in wikipedia). These are not passing mentions, perhaps Doomsdayer isn't conversant with the topic, instead just wants to shoot it down... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shunyatananda (talk • contribs) 02:31, 19 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Another false claim is "bouncing around the creative industries" It is evident from the FCMC site reference that Nylstoch has founded a not for profit cultural organization that has supported the creation of over 400,000 works, upon contacting this organization you will find that its collections and represented artists meet the criteria for an australian government heritage significance assessment.  https://www.arts.gov.au/sites/default/files/significance-2.0.pdf?acsf_files_redirect  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shunyatananda (talk • contribs) 02:58, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Response - This is becoming severely tiresome. Actually I am conversant with the topic and yes I did read through the sources. Yes Nylstoch exists, but then so do I and I don't get a Wikipedia article. My only possible error might be in calling Nylstoch "DIY" but that was not pertinent to whether or not he is notable. That is what matters, regardless of how much you happen to know about him. You continue to link to sources in which he is only mentioned briefly, and evidence is mounting that your claims about Nylstoch's widespread influence are exaggerated.
 * The PhD thesis "The DiY [‘Do-it-Yourself’] Ethos" by E. Snake-Beings only lists Nylstoch in its Acknowledgments section, and it spells his name wrong.
 * That thesis is the only relevant entry in the Google Scholar search that you linked far above; there are two other results for an unrelated chemical called "NyL Stock".
 * The Australian government document linked in your last comment ("Significance 2.0") does not list Nylstoch or his organization (FCMC) in its index, nor are they mentioned anywhere in its text per a PDF search.
 * Nylstoch is not presently listed anywhere on the FCMC site, and the WP article's citation claiming that he co-founded it is presently dead, so I am skeptical about his true involvement in that organization at all. Thus I must conclude that Nylstock was only tangentially involved in a portion of the 400,000 acts of supporting cultural works that you claimed above.
 * He is not covered in an entire chapter of the thesis "Yes, But How Do We Place You?" by D.S. Zuvela; instead the student used examples of works in which he was involved. (See also WP:OR, as original research does not count for notability in Wikipedia.)
 * The record labels to which he is signed are themselves non-notable, regardless of who runs them.
 * I stand by my "Just appears on some lists" conclusion from above. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520 (Talk&#124;Contribs) 15:37, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Relist as nominator

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia  talk  17:29, 24 July 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete for failing WP:MUSICBIO and WP:ENTERTAINER. Ifnord (talk) 19:30, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:36, 1 August 2020 (UTC) The only tiresome thing is defending more false claims  -"*Nylstoch is not presently listed anywhere on the FCMC site"  Nylstoch is most definately the current secretary of the FCMC inc. (Vic)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shunyatananda (talk • contribs) 05:38, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The efforts being made here to turn a guy who was thanked by some filmmakers into an omnipotent Australian culture guru are quite impressive hero worship. I inspected the FCMC (Foundation for Contemporary Music & Culture) page back on July 19 and did not find Nylstoch listed anywhere within it. I tried to look again just now but my Internet security service (the trustworthy Norton LifeLock) now says the website is dangerous. However I could confirm through an indirect Google search that Nylstoch is indeed their secretary. So he has an administrative position with an organization, good for him. If he truly co-founded the group, nobody in the media cares except for unreliable blog writers. FCMC has some influence, but Nylstoch does not get notability from them. This lengthy paragraph is only about FCMC, and Nylstoch's worshipper has nothing new on all the other claims of influence that have been debunked by myself and El Cid previously. I stand by my "Just appears on some lists" conclusion from above. ---  DOOMSDAYER 520</b> (Talk&#124;Contribs) 14:42, 3 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.