Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christian Zionism in the United Kingdom


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. (non-admin closure) NuclearWarfare  contact me My work  02:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Christian_Zionism_in_the_United_Kingdom
AfDs for this article: 
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Subject is not notable; article is an original synthesis. Christian Zionism is not a significant political movement in the UK. The article cites no newspaper or other independent sources substantiating the idea that Christian Zionism is a notable movement in the UK. I would suggest that is because there are no such sources (the article does cite a piece by Ravender Singh Sembhy in a web magazine which raises the question of whether Christian Zionism could take off in the UK in the future, but concludes with a quote suggesting it will not). LeContexte (talk) 16:36, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete It kind of reports on people who happen to have 3 qualifications: They are Christians, they live in the UK, and they have expressed some kind of sympathy or support for Israel. You might as well write an article on Jewish vegetarians in Ohio. Steve Dufour (talk) 16:52, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep. I don't think Wikipedia should try to decide which political or religious movements are "significant". If they exists, have some distinctness,and sources, there should be an article. I think t his one meets t hose requirements, or comes sufficiently close. This is a much smaller   group than the probably several million "UK Christian who support or sympathize with Israel"  DGG (talk) 18:22, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep but cleanup The article has sufficient sources for notability (no doubt that the Jerusalem Post is reliable), but it's quite a bad mess, relying in large part on primary and self-published sources. I think it's a potentially notable topic, but this isn't the way to write an article.  Nyttend (talk) 19:16, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep as valid article topic, but needs some improvement and wikification. --Soman (talk) 19:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong keep. Historically, there was an enduring movement amongst UK Christians (including many important leaders such as Spurgeon, Shaftesbury, and Wilberforce) to support the the Jewish people both generally and in their desire for a homeland. This is undoubtedly a notable subject and IMO deserves an article of its own, being scarely mentioned elsewhere. Whilst this movement waned in the latter half of the 20th century, in recent years it has seen a small resurgence. The proposer of this AfD is correct in saying that UK Christian Zionism is not a significant political movement - it is primarily a religious movement at the moment and should be evaluated as such. The fact that a number of books have been written in recent years (eg by David Pawson (pro), Paul Wilkinson (pro) and Stephen Sizer (anti)) suggests that it is a notable phenomenon within the UK christian community. I do agree that the current article needs much work and I would also suggest that its scope is extended to cover the historical movement as well as recent developments. But we should improve, not delete, poor articles. Sidefall (talk) 21:09, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thinking about changing my mind - agreed Christian Zionism was of historical significance from (approx) 1850s to 1920s. If it is a notable extant religious movement then I'd agree the article should be retained (it sounds like this is a subject you are far more knowledgeable about than I). What is clear is that the current rather scrappy original research and compendium of weakly related references should go. LeContexte (talk) 22:08, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't claim to be an expert on the subject but do have an interest in it. I think it's fair to say that the past 25 years have seen a resurgence of UK Christian Zionism. Whilst the notability of this in isolation could be endlessly debated, when the historical context is also taken into consideration I would say that the modern movement definitely becomes notable. I agree with your cleanup suggestions. Sidefall (talk) 13:50, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Very Weak Keep The subject is worthy of inclusion, but this article needs significant rewriting and some stronger references. I am erring on the side of Keep, albeit with great reluctance, with the hope that improvements will be forthcoming if the article remains here. Ecoleetage (talk) 22:11, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep but improve though needs a lot of work. Christian Zionism in the United Kingdom (referred to as 'Classical Christian Zionist' by its main promoter today, David Pawson) is far different to U.S. Christian Zionism (Dispensationalist Christian Zionism) and deserves its own article, from its history to its modern day manifestation. AWT (talk) 06:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with your conclusions but would humbly take issue with some claims you've mentioned. Is David Pawson the main promoter of UK Christian Zionism today? Is US Christian Zionism dispensationalist? Some certainly is, but not all. Sidefall (talk) 13:50, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep and improve - As LeContexte observes, this movement was significant in the UK for at least 70 years. The fact that (although extant) it is less significant now should not harm its notability - a religious or political movement that's properly documented in reliable sources should be notable whether it was this century, last century, last millennium or whenever. Currency is not a guarantee of notability, nor is obsolescence any indication of non-notability. AlexTiefling (talk) 13:35, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.   -- raven1977 (talk) 05:31, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup Sourcing disputes the nom's assertion of non-notability. Jclemens (talk) 05:38, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep -- I am not totally familiar with the subject, but the article has adequate references. David Pawson is a notable evangelical (and a baptist minister), who has long studied the prophetic scriptures.  I regard the fact that he is apparently expounding a view makes it worth having an article on it.  I agree that the article may need more work, but that is a reason for tagging it for improvement, not one for deleting it.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep -- It's certainly more notable than Duff Beer. -75.171.190.1 (talk) 02:38, 22 October 2008 (UTC) — 75.171.190.1 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.