Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christianity in heavy metal


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete.  SilkTork  *YES! 20:39, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Christianity in heavy metal

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Reads like a personal essay, also WP:SYN. There's already an article about the topic of Christian metal. What this article does for the most part of it is listing individual cases, such as "Nick van Dyk, guitarist and songwriter for the band Redemption, is a practicing Catholic and although Redemption is not a religious band, there are undercurrents of spirituality in their music" but band member's individual experiences are completely irrelevant here, and such is also the lead section with a reference to the Beatles who never played heavy metal music. Dragquennom (talk) 18:38, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Strong keep. Valid subject, just needs to be cleaned-up. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:30, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Further the nominator started by moving the article and then nominating it. That makes it harder to find for people who only have links to the old article. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no original research as it's full of references. It's just essay format and needs to be cleaned-up. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:08, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Nominee has now changed primary reason for deletion. Time to dismiss the nomination. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "time to dismiss the nomination"? Dragquennom (talk) 20:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep . Is different from Christian metal, though related to it. Needs serious cleanup though.--3family6 (talk) 20:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Indifferent: In light of the points brought up by editors, I do not care if the article is deleted or not, and I will support if decision is to delete it.--3family6 (talk) 01:10, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete it may be full of references, but there's nothing new here that couldn't be included in Christian metal. As it stands, this article is half personal essay and half list of trivia, neither of which belong in WP. eldamorie (talk) 20:22, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Provisional keep (is that allowed?) Delete. The subject is separate from Christian metal, as it deals with the treatment of Christianity in secular metal, not metal which is distinctly Christian. The article in general, especially the lead, does read like an essay, though, and it doesn't seem to be a matter of simple cleanup. I think the subject could support its own article, but not in its current form. It would need to be rewritten - maybe approached from a different perspective? --Fru1tbat (talk) 20:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think what you're saying in short is: "keep the title but rewrite the article". IMO your rationale is better suited to a "delete" vote. Dragquennom (talk) 20:52, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think what Fru1tbat is saying is that the material is good but the writing style is not appropriate. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I don't think you understood him right... quoting what Fru1tbat said: "The article in general...doesn't seem to be a matter of simple cleanup. I think the subject could support its own article, but not in its current form. It would need to be rewritten - maybe approached from a different perspective?" - i.e. he says the subject's good but not the material. Anyway let's just wait until he replies to our "thoughts". Dragquennom (talk) 12:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Dragquennom, I think you're probably right. I think the problems are inherent in the current material, not just the writing style. Also, per Azure Shrieker below. Vote amended to delete. --Fru1tbat (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete I regret starting this 'article' in the first place. It was originally a sub-article of a section in the Christian metal article that got out of hand and was moved to cut size down. I already once tagged this to be deleted but the request was quickly rejected. As someone commented in the edit field, this just lacks any 'point' - or we just are not able to make it clear what ever it was and I doubt we will. This is more of a tabloid gossip material than an encyclopedia-worthy, credible article. Even the scholar Moberg commented that sections like these (that emphasize the use of Christianity by certain secular bands) imply fan mentality (typical for "fan-scholarly" writings as he put it), thus unprofessionalism. Christian metal forums are full of these discussions. I think those should stay there for privacy's sake. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:53, 28 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment: I understand the whole "fan-mentality" thing, but there are bands like Trouble that are definitely associated with Christian metal (the band's label coined the term "white metal"), but are not actually Christian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 3family6 (talk • contribs) 01:32, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think such cases should be discussed in the individual band or musician articles if necessary. Many already are, like Trouble, Santolla, Araya... Now this article just attracts anonymous editors to add more and more obscure bands here with supposed Christian references and members that are debatable at best. Truth is, there are lots of those bands out there, lots of them, so it does not make sense to keep this article just to collect them all in one place. It might make sense to rewrite this and approach from different angle, such as discussing metal's relationship to Christianity, anti-Christian sentiment etc. but even that is already mentioned in the Christian metal article and some other ones.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 21:06, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you are right.--3family6 (talk) 01:10, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - The creator of the article has voted to delete. IMO it could've been be deleted as WP:CSD, i.e., "If requested in good faith and provided that the only substantial content to the page was added by its author", if users wouldn't actually add useless individual musicians' cases, which they did, and which are irrelevant, as stated in my rationale. Dragquennom (talk) 11:27, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:20, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:21, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete This isn't a cohesive article, more like a collection of loosely-related thoughts on a topic. The most that this topic should be is a small section in the Christian metal article.  Royal broil  01:06, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * There actually exists "a small section in the Christian metal article", see Christian_metal. Dragquennom (talk) 05:55, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.