Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christoffel Golden Jr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 13:35, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Christoffel Golden Jr.

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This subject does not meet WP:BASIC. Not finding significant coverage in multiple, independent reliable sources. Coverage existent in reliable sources consists of articles such as this, which is almost all quotations from the subject, making it a primary source in nature that does not establish notability. Otherwise, just finding passing mentions, name checks and quotations, none of which establish notability. North America1000 22:57, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. North America1000 22:58, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. North America1000 22:58, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Africa-related deletion discussions. North America1000 22:58, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete Community consensus is that LDS leaders have to pass WP:GNG (see discussions in 2014, 2016, 2017, and 2018). Most of the sources in the article are either not independent (lds.org, Ensign, Almanac put together by Church News, actual Church News) or not reliable (enthusiastic self-publisher "Grampa Bill"). That leaves the Garr, et al LDS Encyclopedia, and two sources that I added that mention some of Golden's recent activities with the World Congress of Families. I don't think the sources I added are significant enough coverage to count toward notability, and the other reliable sources I found in newspaper databases only cover Golden in the context of routine announcements and quotes, which are not significant coverage of this subject. So this subject doesn't seem to pass WP:GNG. While I am confident that readers can find the LDS public relations team's work without Wikipedia's help, I'm open to reconsidering my !vote if significant coverage in independent reliable sources emerges to support a WP:GNG claim. Bakazaka (talk) 00:56, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem (talk) 02:37, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. The sources in the article are insufficient to meet WP:NBIO.  Most are to LDS-connected publications.  One is a link to another wikipedia article (not a WP:RS).  The two sources that look reasonable at first glance, profam and SPLC are just mentions that the subject is attending a conference.  -- RoySmith (talk) 14:17, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep Mainly because I am tired of the attacks on Deseret News as a "public relations" organization when it works to be an actual newspaper. Also there are three indepdent sources identified so that is enough to keep.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:44, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Since no one has made such an attack here, your !vote rationale seems unrelated to this particular AfD discussion. However, since you brought it up, Deseret News is a newspaper that has some independent content and some Church News content. The Church News content is literally the LDS Church's "authorized news" produced by church staff (see Church News). The Deseret News piece identified by the nominator is Church News content, which you can tell because it says "by Church News". The LDS Almanac source is also produced by Church News (see Church_News). Bakazaka (talk) 09:19, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Turns out the link I provided in the nomination is also a primary source. From the Church News article: "The Church News is the official newspaper of the LDS Church". Primary sources are not usable to establish notability. Nor are passing mentions, as they do not provide significant coverage. North America1000 14:15, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I trust The Washington Post as a WP:RS. But, since it's owned by Jeff Bezos, it makes a poor source for articles about Bezos, or Amazon (which he also runs).  Likewise, the NY Times is certainly a WP:RS, but when it writes about itself (for example, https://nyti.ms/2UR1EF5) those particular articles are not what you would want to be using as sources.  I'm sure the reporters for both papers are diligent in writing their articles as carefully and dispassionately as possible.  But, if the subjects of those articles were truly notable, it should be easy to avoid the issue entirely by finding other, completely independent, sources.  If such sources are, in fact, impossible to find, that's a good indication that the subject probably isn't notable after all.  Actually, to go back to the NYT example, I can't find any other contemporary coverage of the event.  That leads me to believe that the fact that the NYT concluded their negotiations with NYC and NYS for tax incentives to build their College Point plant was not, in fact, a notable event by our standards.  Which, in turn, leads me to believe that the NYT's coverage of that event was indeed biased, even though the NYT is considered a highly reliable source in general.  This is why I object to using Deseret News as a source to establish notability of LDS-related topics.  That's a long way from saying that DN is not an "actual newspaper", or that it's "a public relations organization".  -- RoySmith (talk) 17:11, 11 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete. All RS I can see are LDS Church related; could not find independent RS that give notability (per WP:GNG), outside the LDS Church? Britishfinance (talk) 10:40, 14 February 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.