Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christopher Rombola


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. (non-admin closure) Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 05:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Christopher Rombola

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Taken to AfD as result of discussion at Talk:Christopher Rombola. Non-notable athlete (failing WP:ATHLETE)- he was brought in for developmental leagues, and has not advanced beyond those leagues, thus he hasn't participated in a fully professional manner. Additionally he simply doesn't have significant coverage in reliable sources to merit inclusion. Also, this had been previously deleted (though in a much smaller version apparently) at Articles for deletion/Chris Rombola (2nd nomination). &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 07:24, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.   -- &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 07:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletion discussions.   -- &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 07:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions.   -- &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 07:26, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment. I spoke with this editor three days ago regarding his concern over the article and had told him I was more then willing to work with him until he was satisfied with the subjects notability. Based on that conversation, I was under the impression that I would be allowed time to provide additional references. I was unaware of his conversation with another edition from WP:PW, however I was never told I had a specific time limit to do so. I would have appreciated if the nominating editor had at least notified me on the article's talk page before making his decision.
 * I do respectfully disagree with both editors in regard to the previous Afd debate, their opinion that Ohio Valley Wrestling alumni and the sources (referred to as "fansites") provided in the article itself. I think its unfair to characterize developmental promotions as "non-professional leagues". None of these promotions were ever owned by WWE, nor did it have any financial ties, with the exception of exclusive talent agreements. Many, but not all, its wrestlers were under developmental contract. That said, while Rombola never held a championship title, he was involved in feuds with Bad Company (Shawn Osborne & Mike Kruel)/High Dosage (Jon Bolen & Ryan Reeves) and Gothic Mayhem and received title shots against both Paul Birchall and Jacob Duncan which certainly elevates him above preliminary wrestler status. I assume from this statement on the talk page, an OVW wrestler who had held a title would be notable ?
 * Among the references included in the article, many of which are frequently used in other wrestling articles on Wikipedia (LordsofPain.net, Wrestling101.com, 411mania.com, GeorgiaWrestlingHistory.com and NZPWI.co.nz), a full WWE.com interview discussing his being the first wrestler selected from a national tryout held by the company in late-2005. As previously stated on the talk page, the tryouts were held both throughout the United States and Great Britain. While I have no sources to prove or disprove otherwise, I believe this was the first major recruitment effort held by the promotion with the exception of the WWE Tough Enough series. Among the other wrestlers selected in the tryouts included Shawn Spears, the second wrestler selected, and is referenced from a WWE.com interview on his official website. Other sources I provided were intended to reference notable wrestlers, events and other information relavent to the article itself.
 * As far as the previous Afd debate goes, the main issue was that the article had little content and was unsourced. I believe my version corrected that. I realize as an anonymous contributor, my opinion may not count as much as established editors. If other edits feel this particular wrestler's career in OVW was insignificant, I won't debate the issue. I do feel nominating the article for Afd was both rushed, extreme and, under the circumstances, a bit unfair. While I didn't nessessarily agree with all his points, I was happy and optimistic to work with a more experienced editor in improving the article. I realize this editor had his reasons, but I think a lot of time could have been saved on both our parts. 71.184.51.101 (talk) 17:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC) — 71.184.51.101 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:09, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep Proxy User (talk) 02:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment While I hate to pry, would you mind elaborating on your rationale? The article still doesn't seem to have the sort of coverage necessary to pass WP:ATHLETE or WP:N. &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 11:09, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, doesn't meet WP:ATHLETE. The only sources provided (and that I can find) are primary, trivial, or not reputable. Nikki  311  18:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I notice that featured articles such as CM Punk and Shelton Benjamin, both former OVW wrestlers, use the exact same sources and in the same context ? This seems to include many lower graded articles as well, including some current GA articles, which have even fewer sources then this partcular article. Your project might want to consider reexamining its grading policy in future. 72.74.207.201 (talk) 15:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Thing is, both CM Punk and Shelton Benjamin have both gone fully-pro, and thus meet WP:ATHLETE regardless of the sourcing. The problem with Rombola is that, since he doesn't meet WP:ATHLETE we have to prove notability via reliable, third-party sources. &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 19:11, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm not a wrestling fan but Ohio Valley Wrestling appears to be a legitimate independent wrestling promotion. I don't think you can really compare the company to a minor league or a farm team and, sorry if I offend, but its probably not accurate to classify professional wrestling as a "sport" and subject to WP:ATHLETE. The main argument from the only other person to vote was specifically that the sources "are primary, trivial, or not reputable" and would imply that the problem is the sourcing. 72.74.207.201 (talk) 01:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC) — 72.74.207.201 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment At the time when Rombola was with OVW, it was still a developmental territory of the WWE, thus not "fully" professional, and if WP:ATHLETE doesn't apply, then the only notability guideline here is WP:N, which the article also does not meet. &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 01:38, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment You keep repeating that because OVW had a long-term business deal with WWE, the promotion is not a "real" wrestling promotion and thus those who have competed in the promotion are not notable. However, I think you're misinterpreting the term "professional league". This as a sports entertainment company, not an athletic organization. The company itself is a notable promotion on the independent circuit as are many of its former and current wrestlers. The sources provided, which pass WP:N and WP:V, support the claim that he was a notable competitor in the promotion. By the way, I have made frequent edits to Wikipedia (including AFD discussions) and I think my opinion is as valid as anyone else's. Since I was offering comment rather then casting a vote, was it really necessary add the above tag ? 72.74.207.201 (talk) 17:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC) — 72.74.207.201 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Comment Maybe I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that OVW was at the time Rombola participated a developmental league. My understanding is that a developmental league is similar to minor leagues; not every player in a minor league is notable. There may be notable players in those leagues, but they have to meet WP:N on their own. As to your participation in AfDs, the tag was entirely accurate; looking at 72.74.207.201 you have only commented on this AfD. &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 20:38, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Your assumption would be incorrect, it seems. OVW is, and has always been, an independent wrestling promotion completely separate from WWE. While you are correct that not every wrestler who worked for the company is notable, the sources provided clearly support the assertion that he himself was a notable competitor during his time in OVW. Notability here is clearly established. In checking my contributions, you fail to take into consideration that the computer I'm currently editing from used a proxy IP address or that I might be using a different computer then I normally use. The tag's use, in my experience, it is generally used to identify suspected sock puppets and the like on AFD. I don't vote on AFD but I do put in my two cents when its warranted or when there's little discussion taking place as in this case. Placing the tag implies that I have some ulterior or dishonest motive for contributing to this discussion. It also serves to devalue anything I have said. I think that's in poor form considering I have been more then civil in this discussion. 72.74.207.201 (talk) 04:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.