Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christopher Straub


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. Skomorokh 06:11, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Christopher Straub

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The subject does not appear to be very notable. He is currently a contestant on a reality television show, but that does not necessary give notability. The sources in the article are either from the show's website or the the subject's hometown newspaper. Perhaps down the line he will be notable, like if he goes on to win the show, but for now he does not appear to be notable. either way (talk) 02:51, 4 September 2009 (UTC) and so on... my point being, similar designers from different seasons (with similar backgrounds) have been allowed to have a similar page. Most of the listed designers have done less than Christopher Straub, and some of them had even been removed from the show in an earlier challenge than Christopher Straub. Given the following and popularity associated with the show a page should be warranted for most designers. I would think there would be a bigger need for articles for designers than 'Survivor' or 'Biggest Looser' contestants because, much like an artist, people may be looking for information/background on this person as opposed to many other reality television shows.--Coope247 (talk) 16:12, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge as not notable on his own, per WP:BIO1E ~ Excesses ~  (talk) 15:41, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep As per Wikipedia:Notability (Reality Television participants) critera as to if a reality tv personality merits an article on Wikipedia. Straub appears on two reality television programs and thus meets the criteria. (talk)21:54, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't exactly count it as two reality shows. The models show is really just based out of Project Runway.  It's not really a seperate show since it basically just uses the same footage as Project Runway.  Additionally, Notability (Reality Television participants) is a failed notability guideline.   either way (talk) 03:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I would still say that it is, as of currently, the only guideline that is set fourth and this article falls well within that guideline. It IS two different reality tv shows (although related to the same subject), and so technically this article should be allowed under the current set of guidelines.  Until a guidline is agreed upon, I believe there is no reason to hastily delete this article. This article is only just starting out and I do plan to research additional sources and increase the content in the coming weeks.  For now, it is a reasonable article that complies with the loose (non-technically agreed upon guidelines) with a few reasonable sources and a good starting point so I feel there is no reason to delete this article as I promise you it will be expanded in the future.  Thanks,   (talk)22:37, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
 * As there is no specific notability guideline (like Wikipedia:Notability (Reality Television participants)) for this, it falls under the general WP:BIO guidelines for notability. It fails this because there is not enough coverage in reliable sources for the subject.  The only coverage is in his local newspaper, or as part of the coverage of all of the cast of the show.  either way (talk) 03:47, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I would not specifically refer to Vita.mn as a "local newspaper"... it is a Minnesota state-wide newspaper. Likewise, Star Tribune is considered one of the nations largest  metro newspapers and encompases a tri-state area and I believe the USA Today is a nation-wide newspaper.  My original article was deleted under the "Wikipedia:Notability (Reality Television Participant) guideline.  I have since met that guideline (although I know it is not 'official') and am working to make a very valid entry.  Please leave the article up. (talk)8:55, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I meant local as in state level. The USA Today is nation-wide, yes, but as I mentioned, I don't believe it establishes notability for him since he's just mentioned along with every other contestant on the show.  either way (talk) 22:51, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - subject meets the GNG and thus can have an article. Merging is possible, but not desirable because most of the details would be lost in a merge (a bio of this length would be inappropriate on the page about the show.)  BLP1E shouldn't apply as the guideline is intended to protect people who were merely part of some major but otherwise remain "normal" people, not people "famous for only one thing".  People purposely seeking fame do not need 1E protection. P.S. Notability (Reality Television participants) is a failed guideline and as such has no relevance. --ThaddeusB (talk) 14:09, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - Keeping would be inconsistent with the current dominant practice regarding reality show contestants. Merging isn't viable because Project Runway season articles are pretty spare on biographic information. Although Notability (Reality Television participants) failed to reach consensus, in practice very similar standards are being applied. I go to a lot of reality TV articles, and only certain contestant articles seem to get kept: winners of their season, people that end up on another reality show, people that end on other TV shows or film, contestants who garner significant media coverage for their off-show professional exploits before or after the show. The gray area seems to be non-winners who are eliminated in the final episode. Sometimes they get article and sometimes they don't. Counting PR and Models of the Runway as two shows seems contrary to the spirit of the two show proposals. That proposal seems to address contestants whose fame is should to be more durable because they were cast for a second show and is longer in duration because the shows were not aired simultaneous. But the original runs of PR6 and Models of the Runway are simultaneous and the shows air back-to-back. Models of the Runway likely does not bring in many new viewers. If tacking on an extra half-hour conveys notability, then Biggest Loser contestants should be notable because their show is generally two hours. And if simultaneous extensions of a parent show count, then why not count Big Brother After Dark as a second show? I think counting Models would go against the spirit of the second show idea. An article for Christopher Straub would be inconsistent with treatment of similar reality contestants. So I think the only viable options are delete this article or allow articles for every contestant of PR, Survivor, Amazing Race, Top Chef, etc. (or at least every contestant who has won a challenge). --JamesAM (talk) 15:09, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - I agree with ThaddeusB. Contrary to JamesAM, it is unknown if "Models of the Runway" brings in a lot of additional viewers, but it is a completely different, (although a spin-off) independent show.  If JamesAM insists on this article being deleted I would also point to several other contestants from previous seasons (that have only appeard on the single show - Project Runway) that have been allowed to have a wikipedia page and is not being considered for deletion, such as:
 * Kevin Johnn from season 1
 * Daniel Franco from season 1
 * Wendy Pepper from season 1
 * Kara Saun from season 1
 * Dianna Eng from season 2
 * Kara Janx from season 2
 * Uli Herzner from season 3
 * Comment - It should be noted that the contestants you listed above actually do meet at least one of the criteria I mentioned above for reality contestants. Pepper, Saun, and Herzner all made the finals and had their work shown at Fashion Week. In addition, Saun was a costume designer for several broadcast network TV shows. Franco appeared on two seasons of PR. Eng's article notes that she also published a book, won the Yahoo! Hack contestant, and has had her work featured on newspaper and magazine covers. The two closest case to Straub are Janx and Johnn. Janx reached the penultimate episode, but other aside from that good performance on PR, no other notable professional achievement were in her article. However, the article does cite a People.com announcement about the birth of one of her children. That does show that she has achieved a level of celebrity that People Magazine considers her notable. Johnn's article merely asserts that he was a PR contestant and has his own clothing line (without noting any particular renown or success). I think Johnn and Straub are in the same boat. If Straub is deleted, Johnn ought to be deleted too. The article don't provide a basis that the other designers mentioned "have done less than Christopher Straub." As of now, Straub's article is confined to the facts of his participation in PR and selling his accessories online. If he has other achievements that merit a Keep, they should be added to the article to be consider in the deletion evaluation. --JamesAM (talk) 03:19, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment' - I would like to point out that only 3 episodes have aired of the sixth season. Straub has been fan favorite for the first three weeks and it would be expected much more press will be announced in the comming weeks.  I would like for the article to stay up for at least that long so I can make additions so please do not hastily delete it, which seems like a reasonable request.  Thanks..--Coope247 (talk) 9:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Note: Coope247 has already "voted" keep earlier in this discussion. either way (talk) 22:50, 6 September 2009 (UTC)


 * BIG FAN OF PROJECT RUNWAY. You should keep this page up...I'm interested in his designs and feel this page is useful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.243.203.49  (talk • contribs)
 * Delete -Even if this article meets the unofficial guidelines for "notability" it reads like a poorly written fluff piece meant to advertise his clothing lines. Also, it seems like there's little precedent to have articles which detail one reality show contestant's weekly progress.  128.104.93.117 (talk) 19:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The article could be better written and I would strongly encourage other people to make additions and help to properly cite and word the article. If you notice, this is my first attempt at an article and I am working to learn the process... it is not a particularly easy-to-use site so it is taking some getting used to. It would be ideal for the article to stay up and allow for proper additions and modifications as the show progresses.  Deleting the article will not help, it will only hinder the process. I would hope this article could be considered a sort of "work in progress" as the show is in its early stages and the contestants are just beginning to receive press and acknowledgment from the fashion community.  Also, I would like to point out that the contestants on Project Runway cannot be compared to other reality television stars such as on the "biggest looser" or "Survivor" because it requires pre-existing talent and some notability just to be accepted as a contestant... people on this show are not just normal people that got on a show like many other shows may be.  Right now it seems people are quick to want to delete articles when it seems it would not hurt anything to give it a few weeks to be further developed.-- (talk) 15:03 10 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.