Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Church of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   WP:WITHDRAWN. (non-admin closure)

Closing comment: Despite In ictu oculi's extremely poor assessment of the situation; "too lazy" and "biting newcomers" and "wasting all our time" and "I'm now going to delete them all". For starters, I nominated only one article Pretty Pig created. You have largely based your WP:BITE accusation on the fact that you think I nominated multiple articles created by Pretty Pig when I only nominated Church of Saint Alphonsus (Novena Church). The standard generated notification was in line with Wiki-policy. I chose to ignore Pretty's vandalism warning because, I'm not sure if you'd agree or not, but AFD's are not considered vandalism, and another admin was already addressing the situation which unfortunately ended in a Pretty Pig's 24 hour block. Even after In ictu oculi was told the truth he neither struck his statements in the AFD nor on my talk page demanding an apology. A lack of assuming good faith all around and criticized me for not thoroughly checking yet at the same time he made an extra attempt at accusing me here at the AFD, on other user talk pages, and my own, when he failed to even confirm the fundamental basis of his own complaint. Also, you mentioned I nominated "8 large articles" yet I only see 6 over the last month that have gone through AFD. Seemingly In ictu oculi had this opinion before you had any evidence and chose to throw fuel on the fire. Separately, I highly respect the AFD process and it's clear that my assessment WP:BRANCH is against the consensus. I do regret Pretty Pig's initial experience at Wikipedia, but I stand by my decision that the article he created, which is not this one, is still a nomination I will keep open. Mkdw talk 19:58, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Church of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Text book case of WP:BRANCH where the organization is notable but the local church building is not inherently notable. No WP:SIGCOV to suggest otherwise. Mkdw talk 06:18, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep. As the article already states, this building is a National Monument of Singapore. --Arxiloxos (talk) 06:29, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Being a national monument does not necessarily mean its inherently notable either. Every city has monuments and heritage houses. The fact that Singapore is essentially a small island/city country does not change this. I would not be opposed to a merge into National Monuments of Singapore like they did at Vancouver for all the List of heritage buildings in Vancouver in cases where the building lacked SIGCOV. Mkdw talk 06:36, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Then what is inherently notable? We cannot have a proper debate when the definition is being changed all the time. Pretty Pig (talk) 05:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Singapore-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:43, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:43, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:43, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:43, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. Given that Singapore has only so far designated 63 buildings as National Monuments, fewer than those designated by the national government (as opposed to the local government) in most European cities of a similar size, I think it is fairly obvious that this is a genuinely notable building and not one of simple local interest. In general we consider buildings designated as national monuments to have at least a good chance of being notable even where, as in Britain, there are many thousands of them. In a country that has designated so few, I think it's fair to assume that all are notable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:04, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep per sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:06, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - I challenge the nominator to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this entry and others that have been nominated for deletion are not "inherently notable" enough to be on Wikipedia. There are many sources abound and the real question is this, has any research been done to warrant such a nomination? Pretty Pig (talk) 05:05, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep, in this case being a National Monument makes this a notable building. @ Pretty Pig you might want to tone down your aggressive style, challenging everyone who disagrees with you as editi warring or vandalism when clearly they are not just makes you sound like a jerk. People can have their own opinion and many people will not agree with you at any given time. It's important to remember that we all have to work together ultimately and you're only burying that good will under a ton of dirt when you might need it later. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 05:17, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment Hell In A Bucket, excuse me, perhaps the real question should be, were the initial challenges justifiable in the first place? I am only carrying out a defence of the entries, so why do you flame me for? For example, this mass nomination thing. Was any real homework done beforehand? I agree that people can have their own opinions, but you cannot just do things without any justification. Pretty Pig (talk) 05:31, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * In this case they have supplied a reason, they may be off base but that is their reason. No one is flaming you, you're a new editor. I've left a much longer rationale on your talkpage. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 05:35, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * To be honest the problem here is not Pretty Pig, the problem is User:Mkdw. I think Mkdw owes an apology to PrettyPig and to everyone else for wasting all our time with these AfDs. I have not often seen a newbie editor bitten in such a pointless way. Instead of a note on Pretty Pig's Talk page saying "Hi, I've just seen your articles, I'm now going to delete them all" which would have been bad enough, we get this standard robot note. Mkdw was not only too lazy to search Google Books, he also was too lazy to write a personal note to a new editor who had just created 8 large articles. I'm not impressed at all. Please do not bite the newcomers. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:13, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the support! Actually, I only created one of the articles, namely the one on Novena Church, but I realised that User:Mkdw had done a mass nomination on numerous other articles, not including the ones involved now, and did not think there was much basis for the nominations. So I leapt into action and we're now at where we're at now. Granted, I probably could have reacted in a better manner, but the mass nominations and the standardised notifications gave me the impression that the nominations were not done out of good faith. I even wrote on his talk page but it was just deleted without a reply. | Deleted Comment Even if my definitions were off, a reply or correction would have been nice. Pretty Pig (talk) 07:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well it was several editors several tags then. The main problem remains, lack of checking. Well done in finding the Straits Times article Pretty Pig. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:36, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.