Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chutzpa Productions (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus of the weaker variety. A move should be considered per Chess' comments. Daniel (talk) 13:18, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Chutzpa Productions
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This was a 2015 keep, however I think it's time to look at this in light of current notability standards. This was not discussed at the time, but is an interview/review. I looked through those on their press site as suggested, and they're interviews mostly with Hecht, so not independent. This may be the exception, but I'm not sure it's a reliable source. I also explored creating an article on Hecht as suggested at the AfD, but I don't think there's the sourcing there either. Thoughts? (Will ping contributors to the AfD in a comment) Star   Mississippi  16:38, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.  Star   Mississippi  16:38, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions.  Star   Mississippi  16:38, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions.  Star   Mississippi  16:38, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Courtesy as referenced in or contributed to Articles for deletion/Chutzpa Productions. Omitting nom who is since sock blocked.  Star   Mississippi  16:41, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. I'm turning up basically bubkis in a google search.  Maybe a small handful of their productions would marginally pass WP:GNG, and also possibly the founder of the company, but per WP:NOTINHERITED, the company would need to stand on its own, and other than it's own website and social media accounts, there's little out there except for the name attached to its productions.  -- Jayron [[User talk:Jayron32|<b style="color:#0
 * Weak keep. Maybe moving the information to the founder might help. There's always a choice between the person and the company when they are this closely inter-related, as is often the case in the arts.  DGG ( talk ) 08:26, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Conclusion last time was to move to the principal. Don't know why community time is wasted on this again. If one wants to contribute, the path is clear. Meets WP:GNG at the very least. gidonb (talk) 17:40, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Nom comment because I was unable to find evidence that he meets notability guidelines either, which is why we're here. Also, a lot changes in six years criteria wise. Would be helpful if folks can identify sourcing on which an article could be made. Star   Mississippi  17:53, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Sources were included in the last discussion. Now again. It's the article space work that doesn't get done. gidonb (talk) 03:29, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: It appears the owner of the company is more notable than his actual production company. The only source that convinces me this could have an ounce of GNG is this Times of Israel article. Do we have anymore of this? Even in Hebrew?
 * Delete based on my searching, zero significant coverage in independent-reliable sources. Brayan ocaner (talk) 22:55, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete The article is unreferenced, notability is not evident, and the references I see above are not particularly impressive. - GizzyCatBella  🍁  09:06, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep - I didn't spend more than maybe 10 minutes looking for sources and came up with the following:
 * 1) Sound Cloud
 * 2) Tehran Times - “Forgotten on Sinjar” centers on the overlooked and almost forgotten genocide of the Yazidi people. It sheds light on a remarkable story of Christians, Muslims and Jews, who came together to save women and children that the world had forgotten.
 * 3) Izzy Stream Israel TV
 * 4) Times Will Tell (a podcast by Times of Israel)
 * 5) Times of Israel article
 * 6) Critics At Large - following is a quote by Hecht in a review authored by Shlomo Schwartzberg, a film critic and teacher at Ryerson University, Toronto: “Festivals are the lifeline of an independent filmmaker or for that matter any filmmaker, Jewish or not. Hot Docs is the biggest one. Being in a festival like Hot Docs gets your film noticed. After having two films in it for two years in a row, I can tell you that this alone gives you credibility in the very secluded and often snobbish documentary community. I'm not part of the clique, I do my own thing, and Hot Docs has been amazing in giving me a forum to showcase my work. Indeed it has, as one will discover after some deeper research into his work and the films he has produced. WP:Notability can certainly be elusive in situations like this one. Perhaps my experiences as an NPP reviewer/trainer, and retired TV producer helped guide my search for sources and more information. Based on what I've gleaned, Chutzpa Productions is notable, as is Igal Hecht. If an editor has the time to do the research, the article could be expanded to include a section about Hecht, or perhaps a stand alone BLP is an option worth considering. As a sidebar - I wanted to share this little tidbit about notability as it has proven quite useful in some of my training exercises for the NPP school.  Atsme 💬 📧 02:23, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
 * and slightly too to @Gidonb as it's similar. So many interviews with Hecht. Do they really establish creative notability? It doesn't seem clear whether they work in a way they don't for the company since he's not independent of it. Star   Mississippi  14:25, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your diligence and for asking questions. I have no doubt that the sources in my list establish notability - see WP:NRV. The few sources I found (in 10 minutes or less & there are more) are indeed "independent of the subject" and are not produced by Chutzpuh or Hecht or affiliated in some way (advertising, press releases, autobiographies, subject's website, etc.). If you get a chance, please read User talk:Atsme as there are many parallels relative to notability in general.
 * Keep. I agree with the reasons given by User:Atsme directly above. Knox490 (talk) 03:28, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Relisting because I am not convinced at this point and I don't think other reviewers will be, either, that this subject merits inclusion. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 00:21, 24 December 2021 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   08:42, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep The fact that this has already been through AFD, and  Atsme has provided a bunch of References above, in addition to what's already on the page, its a keep for me. Meets WP:GNG Deathlibrarian (talk) 01:48, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I've seen you across many AFDs, and totally respect your searching, but can you clarify how these sources are independent of Hecht/his company when they're primarily interviews? As far as I've always heard, those don't help with GNG. Star   Mississippi  14:40, 27 December 2021 (UTC)
 * hi Star  they are interviews with him, and they discuss him - if someone/some company is the featured focus of an article, than that is legitimate RS.I wouldn't think that's the same as churnalism, which is basically republishing a press release form the company. As far as I understood, if someone is the feature of an article, then it counts, as longs as its not a replication of a press release? Happy to be corrected of course!  Deathlibrarian (talk) 11:50, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Move to Igal Hecht. While the sources Atsme have provided demonstrate notability, the notable entity isn't this production company, but the filmmaker himself. It would seem like Hecht is effectively synonymous with this company to the point that a find+replace of "Chutzpah Productions" with "Igal Hecht" in addition to a move would result in no practical difference to the article itself. On a more pragmatic basis the article would no longer have to be considered under WP:NORG in that case. Chess (talk) (please use&#32; on reply) 19:40, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I found more sources: Toronto.com, Video Librarian (review), Minding The Campus and I have no objection to a MOVE. I also mentioned it in my iVote so either way works.  Atsme  💬 📧 05:08, 2 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.