Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Civilian casualties of strategic bombing


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Michig (talk) 07:59, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Civilian casualties of strategic bombing

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The article is an incomprehensible list which doesn't even have a criteria of what it lists, which was pointed out on discussion page multiple times, not to say sources for given numbers. Qbli2mHd (talk) 12:14, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 13:09, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  MT Train Talk 13:09, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 05:10, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep. A clearer criteria should be developed (I'll note that including the Gulf war, NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, Second Chechen War (1999–2009), and Libyan Civil War (2011) is somewhat dubious in my eyes. Inclusion of the Syrian civil war is possible (but borderline)) - but a list of notable strategic bombing raids with a casualty count above some threshold (or Wiki standalone notability) performed as part of a strategic bombing campaign - seems to meet WP:SAL.Icewhiz (talk) 09:33, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Split -- I find the implications of conflating all kinds of military activity that results in civilian casualties disturbing. Targeting civilians is a war crime, or would have been in WWII if the concept then existed.  Targeting a military installation is legitimate, as is targeting a munitions factory, also transport infrastructure to disrupt military supplies.  In WWII, there were no precision targeted munitions, so that their use was not an option.  In the Gulf War, the case of a precision munition that malfunctioned and thus killed civilians does not represent a war crime, because the intended target was a military one.  On the other hand indiscrimate bombing in Syria and rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza are not attacks on military targets and are potentially war crimes.  It is not appropriate for WP to conflate these into a single article.  I appreciate that there may be political disputes as to what is and is not legitimate military action against an intended military target.  Peterkingiron (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 06:25, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep Entire books are written about this topic – examples include Bombing Civilians: A Twentieth-Century History; Targeting Civilians in War; and Bombs, Cities, and Civilians. The topic is therefore quite notable and the rest is a matter of ordinary editing per our editing policy.  See also we had to destroy the village to save it and note that WP:TNT is not policy. Andrew D. (talk) 11:17, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep (no opinion on splitting/merging as needed) - It's a subject well covered and I've not yet seen a more obvious article the content belongs in. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 16:34, 11 March 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.