Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clan Morrow


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  So Why  08:56, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Clan Morrow

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No original research and Notability. This article is a synthesis of unrelated factoids posing as an otherwise unknown Scottish clan. In some cases, the people mentioned in the article are members of unrelated families (like the Scottish Clan Murray and the Irish MacMurrough dynasty) or otherwise random people from Scotland, Ireland, and the USA. "Clan Morrow" turns up two hits on Google Books, both are novels. A couple observations:
 * The pictured coat of arms is Irish and has no connection to Scotland. In the 19th century, John O'Hart wrote that it was one of the coats of arms of the MacMurrough family of Leinster. Later in the 20th century, Edward MacLysaght, the Chief Herald of Ireland, stated that the arms were that of the MacMurrough kings of Leinster, and that the arms "are not borne by any family now, the various branches (Kavanagh, etc.) each having its own distinct coat of arms".
 * The men associated with the Ragman Roll, Robert Bruce, and Harlaw, are Murrays.
 * The DNA stuff is pulled from a blog exploring the Flemish ancestry of the Murrays (since in some cases the surname "Morrow" is a variant of the surname "Murray").
 * The other individuals in the article are just random names cobbled together to make it seem like they are related in a meaningful way. Apparently no one knows the familial origins of the Americans other than the assumption that they were of 'Scotch' or 'Scotch-Irish' ancestry.

In short, concocting an otherwise non-existant 'clan' out of such people and heraldry is WP:SYNTH and WP:OR. Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 23:22, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 01:56, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Hello Sir. No original research has been done. The "Murrays" of Red Harlaw and of Bruce are as much Morrows as Murrays. If not more so. P. MacGregor Chalmers anglicised most of those names as Morrow. The Scotichronicon as I provided evidence for mentions "Sir Thomas Morrawe". I'm not trying to fabricate any history nor distort it. I'm researching it and placing in one place which I think seems coherent. I never said any of those folk were related. Maybe a Clan was the wrong thing to name the page. I know all about Morrow being a variant of Murray. However most are not. The names Morrawe and Murrawe are far closer to Morrow than Murray, which is one reason why the Morrow name exists, and people pronounced the name as "Morrow". Nearly every book you can read about the Morrow family states that ultimately they either come from Ireland or Scotland, or came from Scotland, settled in Ireland and then went to America. I know you'll probably end up deleting it. You know more about this Wikipedia craic than I do, that's a fact. But I'll stand by my own conclusions. Dr. J. T. Morrow stated the arms for Morrow belonged to both the Irish and Scottish branches of the family. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I hope this all goes off smoothly whatever the result is. I'll stand by my research however. Which I've been doing for the past 9 years on my family. Best regards Sir, and God be with you. -MacMorrow Mór. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MacMorrow Mór (talk • contribs) 10:43, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 15:21, 5 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete It looks to be Original Research, splicing togther people with superficially similar surnames into a 'clan'. Author says "I'll stand by my research", which I think is the problem, it is 'their' research. Agricolae (talk) 16:41, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak delete - My thought initial thought was that if the page is a collection of weakly connected facts about Scottish Morrows, an alternative to delete would be to merge to Morrow (surname) (with or without the redirect, I'm not sure). However, MacMorrow Mór has already added some of the material to that page. Since WP:Preserve is met, or nearly so, with the duplication of the material between the two pages, and since there really doesn't seem to be any reliable sources for a Scottish "Clan Morrow", this page fails verifiability. That said, the page on the surname could possibly benefit from some cleanup, at the very least dates and publishers could be added to the references. Smmurphy(Talk) 20:20, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete I had a quick look and can't verify that this clan exists. A Google search brings up this site as a listing of Scottish clans - and it's not on there. http://www.scotclans.com/scottish-clans/clans-a-z/m/ Deathlibrarian (talk) 05:23, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete (or merge) -- Clans are essentially a highland phenomenon, a statement that others may dispute. The article is a collection of miscellaneous material regarding people with the name or names like Morrow, bringing together a variant on Moray (which is I thing Highland); perhaps a lowland family; and something Irish which may well precede the Ulster settlement.  Something very brief dealing with the multiple origins of the surname might be useful as a preface to Morrow (surname), which ought mainly to be a list article of people with that name.  Peterkingiron (talk) 10:59, 10 June 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.