Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Class (warez)

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was KEEP. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 16:56, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

Class (warez)
Non-notable warez group. Delete. Carrp | Talk 21:41, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. – flamurai (t) 21:44, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notability has been established. – flamurai (t) 23:01, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - can find nothing on this group around. Nick04 21:45, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I'm sure you tried hard, considering I found this while blindfolded: cracktros by class, NFOs by class, and more NFOs by class.  If you want the warez from Class you'll have to find them yourself.  As for its notability, I'll let Alkivar handle that.   &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 23:16, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Look what we have here: Among the groups targeted by Fastlink are well-known organizations such as Fairlight, Kalisto, Echelon, Class and Project X, all of which specialized in pirating computer games, and music release groups such as APC. Source: United States Department of Justice   unsigned comment by user:RaD Man
 * Please note that the "well-known" is subjective and also only in the context of an Internet subculture. Carrp | Talk 23:39, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Once you figure out how to use google, you may also want to read up on these other survivors of vfd: DEViANCE, United Cracking Force, The Humble Guys &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 23:27, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * What really puzzles me is why you made about 20 edits to The Humble Guys and then proposed it for VfD . Carrp | Talk 23:36, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * It shouldn't puzzle you too much. &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 23:50, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * It just seems curious that you made so many edits and then decided "Wait! This article needs to go!" I mean, you made a minor edit and then one minute later you posted a VfD notice  You don't think that's a bit odd? Carrp | Talk 23:57, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC).
 * Very odd... Zzyzx11 00:05, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Indeed.... &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 00:14, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Warez groups do not seem encyclopedic. Zzyzx11 00:05, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, but with reservations. Article needs cleanup and expansion. Megan1967 00:39, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. The article seems to have a pro-warez POV throughout it. Also, I cannot see how this article contributes valuble information to Wikipedia. If kept, it would need more information, neutral POV, and restructuring. --Tezeti 04:16, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. while i would agree that it has a pro-warez POV at the moment, thats easy to correct. However as far as a notability standard, they more than pass the bar having been one of the more influential game release groups PERIOD. Being subject to multiple, multi-country, multi-agency raids also makes them noteworthy.  ALKIVAR &trade;[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 08:09, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * As with Demo Groups (see discussion on Vfd Feb/17th), warez groups aren't inherently notable. In the internet age, it's far too easy to create one, as all you have to do is spread some illegal software. THG is notable because it predates the internet. Class is not notable, and being targeted by governmental legal action does not construe notability. Delete. Radiant! 09:59, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC) While I hold that not every warez group is notable, the discussion below establishes that Class does qualify. Keep. Radiant! 11:09, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, I would prefer if the common 'dissing wars' between warez groups stayed off WikiPedia (see THG edit comments above). Radiant! 09:59, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Then I guess we should delete the mafia, its really easy to have children and start a crime family. The fact they were raided by the govt makes them not noteworthy ... I gotcha! (this is sarcasm for those of you humor impaired).  ALKIVAR &trade;[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 10:46, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * What I said was that being raided by the government has nothing to do with noteworthiness (or lack thereof) for an encyclopedia. Radiant! 22:20, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I've had the police show up at my door with a warrant; doesn't make me notable. Niteowlneils 14:13, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * You're correct, that alone does not. If you and 100 of your "friends" all have the police, the FBI, and Secret Service (or other respective federal agents) show up at your door and raid your house within the same week that's a whole different story.  An interesting one at that.  &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 22:57, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Notable warez group. I had difficulty formulating a reliable search due to the generic nature of the name "Class" but then stumbled across this one  &mdash;the result: 5340 hits, many of which are citations in the press from global media outlets.  Other than being personally cited as a "prolific" group by Attorney General John Ashcroft, this group is noted by CNET News, G4 TechTV, Wired News, The Register (UK), ZiffDavis Net (.uk & .au), USA Today, Boing Boing, and Slashdot.  There are other news agencies which report on this group in Chinese, Japanese, Italian, French, Finnish, German, Russian, Spanish, Swedish, and many, many other languages.  Note to voters: this article is in the process of being edited.  &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 19:00, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)  this comment originally added at the top of the page.  moved to a "comments section by user:Carrp.  now restored to its place in the chronological order.
 * Please provide links and sources for those claims. Thanks. Carrp | Talk 19:39, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I did. It's in the paragraph right above yours.  Now that you've moved my comment to the bottom of the page, you should see a numeral 5 surrounded by brackets.  In case you don't see it, here it is again.  Note: This time it will be a numeral 6, surrounded by brackets.  Here it comes!    &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 20:10, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep; they seem to have been fairly prolific, as warez groups go. Googling for CLS warez is illustrative. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 22:22, Feb 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and *Edit; the page has been improved and I believe that it contributes more information now.
 * Comment: Above vote left unsigned by Tezeti at 18:53, 19 Feb 2005 (Changed vote) &mdash;RaD Man (talk) 05:19, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I grew up with CLASS, they are one of the most well known warez group ever. bbx 02:49, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep -- Longhair 13:51, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.