Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Classic Judaism (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Speedy delete (CSD G4: Recreation of a page that was deleted per a deletion discussion). Despite a significant amount of rewriting, and the addition of a superficially impressive looking list of references, the issues which led to the earlier deletion have not been addressed. JamesBWatson (talk) 13:06, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Classic Judaism

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Delete for the exact same reasons it was deleted first time around, see Articles for deletion/Classic Judaism: It's a violation of WP:NOR; WP:SYNTH; WP:NEO; WP:NOTMADEUP; WP:NOTSOAPBOX. (Reasoning: 1 This is an intellectually dishonest attempt to carve out a "movement" when none exists, rightly, it should redirect to "Philosophy of the Canadian Yeshiva & Rabbinical School." 2 The article suffers from an identity crisis because it's an admitted "intersection" its author promotes at Canadian Yeshiva & Rabbinical School..."The school does not identify itself with any current Jewish denomination. The school aims to capture the principles of Classic, pre-denominational Judaism based on the European Judaism of the 1700s that form the core of authentic halachic practice occupying the congruent region where a sizeable set of principles well within Orthodoxy intersects with a sizeable set of principles within Conservative Judaism." If it is meant as a stalking horse and poster child for the Union for Traditional Judaism, an amalgam of right-wing Conservative rabbis with left-wing Modern Orthodox rabbis, it should say so and maybe redirect there. 3 The article just cherry picks from here and there to make up it's own theme of a new brand of a heretofore unheard of denomination or group. It portrays a philosophical notion and discussion in the guise of an organized body of thought or as some kind of serious "Judaic Ecumenism" when none exists in the real world, see Jewish denominations where there is no such creature as "Classic" or "Classical" Judaism because any denomination of Judaism claims that it's the "Classic brand" while no consensus exists. 4 None of the real citations and "proofs" in this article add up since each and every one of the scholars cited belonged to one or another branch or denomination of Judaism, such as: 5 these that belonged to and/or were ordained by Conservative Judaism: Jacob Neusner, David Novak, Louis Jacobs, Joel Roth, Seymour Siegel, Louis Finkelstein, Robert Gordis and 6 most of the others belong to Orthodox Judaism that opposes the premises of Conservative Judaism, such as Joseph B. Soloveitchik, Emanuel Rackman, Jonathan Sacks, Moshe Koppel, Immanuel Jakobovits, Moses Sofer, J. David Bleich, Eliezer Berkovits, and 7 then their are secular scholars cited and a few others belonging to various Jewish academic circles. But this does not a "Classic Judaism" make. 8 This topic needs to be taken down, re-condensed maybe discussed at WP:TALKJUDAISM and moved into Jewish philosophy maybe, but on its own it literally represents nothing and only confuses. And at best, this article should be a disambiguation page listing all the Jewish movements that think that they are the "Classic" version!) IZAK (talk) 11:02, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions.  IZAK (talk) 11:14, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Point of order: This is not really a second nomination. The article went through AFD, and the decision was to delete. The author later moved a copy of the article from his userspace into article space, thereby circumventing the mechanism that prevents the recreation of deleted articles. Though the author has considerably expanded on the deleted version, he has done nothing that would change the original deletion decision. I have alerted the deleting admin (Spartaz), and expect that he will redelete the article summarily. --Ravpapa (talk) 11:48, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying this, in other words you are reporting that User has violated the procedures of Deletion review. Let us assume WP:AGF and hope it was due to ignorance on his part. But even with his additional work, as you point out, he has still not obviated the original glaring problems. IZAK (talk) 11:55, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete The article seems to be opinion. It's also hard to see the difference between "Classic Judaism" and just plain Judaism. Borock (talk) 11:49, 19 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep' Yes, all the immediate sources in Google seem to relate this concept to Canadian Yeshiva & Rabbinical School, but looking and even a few links in GoogleBooks seem to show that this term is at least a valid one, which has been referred to many times in works. A major expansion and rewrite is needed however.--Coin945 (talk) 12:29, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.