Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clayton Alexander


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Ad Orientem (talk) 00:23, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Clayton Alexander

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

No indications based on Google searches that Alexander or his companies "Radiance Lightworks" or "Ember" are WP:N. Article seems to have been created and maintained as part of an ongoing public relations effort. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:24, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:24, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete Only one source provided which is insufficient. Does not meet notability.Craigwikiman (talk) 18:20, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Blocked for UPE. MER-C 06:19, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete we lack even one source to show notability. The nature of patents is that even having a lot does not actually guantee you are notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:44, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Here are the sources to prove Alexander is the Founder/CEO of:
 * Radiance Lightworks: https://www.radiancelightworks.com/people
 * Ember Technologies: https://ember.com/pages/about-the-founder Nsands901 (talk) 19:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * We are just trying to update his bio with the latest version, as the current one is many years old and does not include his latest ventures. Please let me know what else you need to get the bio updated and out of deletion mode... Nsands901 (talk) 19:05, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment No one denies that Alexander is the Founder / CEO of those companies. That, in itself, is not sufficient to merit inclusion at Wikipedia. (Please read WP:BIO.) To prove that Alexander is notable, you'll need to provide multiple examples of independent coverage about him in independent sources. Press releases or advertorials about his companies / products are not sufficient; these need to be independent, in-depth reporting about him. If you can find such coverage about Ember Technologies, that article might be rescued. Again, we need more than just product announcements. Given that Ember seems to only have two products on the market, such coverage might be hard to find. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 19:38, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Understood. Please let me know if these articles work as sources:
 * https://www.fastcompany.com/90717041/ember-known-for-keeping-coffee-hot-builds-a-shipping-box-to-keep-vaccines-cold
 * https://www.thestartupstory.co/episodes/clay-alexander-founder-of-ember
 * https://www.brooklinen.com/blogs/brookliving/wind-down-with-clay-founder-of-ember
 * https://www.smartkitchensummit.com/clayalexander
 * https://www.entrepreneurialjoy.com/inventors-circle-clayton-alexander-ceo-journee-lighting-radiance-lightworks/ Nsands901 (talk) 19:49, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete Press releases and the like are not useful for reliable sources. I find nothing showing mentions in other sources. Oaktree b (talk) 20:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * We get his on a Tarzan movie from 2016, which I don't think is this fellow. Oaktree b (talk) 20:05, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I did not include any press releases, so I am not sure what you are referring to. ALL links above are independent sources. Nsands901 (talk) 20:07, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Fine, podcast descriptions. Those are even less notable. Oaktree b (talk) 20:16, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * And interviews with the subject on mostly unheard of websites. None of these are useful, I've gone through the lot of them, whole pile of nothing we can use. Oaktree b (talk) 01:39, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Puff pieces like the Brooklinen blog "Wind down with Clay, founder of Ember", are not reliable sources. In general, first person interviews are a poor source of verifiable information. The information from FastCompany about the Ember Cube might point to notability for the Ember Technologies company, but that still doesn't indicate Alexander's personal notability. (If we decide to retain Ember Technologies, we will likely end up redirecting the Clayton Alexander article to the Ember article.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 20:22, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Please do not delete our pages. I am not sure why Ember Technologies' page is also being considered for deletion. That is absurd. There is plenty of sourcing there. What else can I provide to ensure these pages are not deleted?
 * Does this Crunchbase page help? https://www.crunchbase.com/person/clayton-alexander Nsands901 (talk) 20:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Nsands901 They aren't your pages. They are Wikipedia's articles about Ember Technologies and Clayton Alexander.  I will leave more information for you on your talk page. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 21:47, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You need reliable, neutral, third-party mentions in things such as Time or the New York Times. The references you provide are a long way from these. Oaktree b (talk) 01:28, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete both as not-notable (fails WP:BASIC and WP:NCORP). I couldn't find any significant coverage of Alexander or Ember Technologies, just brief mentions in the context of "gifts for the holidays" newspaper columns (touting Ember's $149 coffee cup). There's a nice Inc. (magazine) article, but at the bottom, it's labeled sponsored business content.  Schazjmd   (talk)  20:50, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not understanding. That Inc. article was NOT sponsored. You are looking at the "sponsored content" at the bottom of the article that is completely unrelated to Ember's Inc. feature.
 * We were also placed on the Inc. 5000 list in 2021. That lists Clay, as well: https://www.inc.com/profile/ember-technologies
 * There are endless amounts of coverage about Clay Alexander, Ember (Technologies), and Clay's ownership in the company all over the internet.
 * Some more:
 * https://www.inc.com/kevin-j-ryan/ember-mug-inventor-wants-to-put-computer-chips-in-all-dishes.html
 * https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/04/ember-smart-coffee-mug-has-joe-and-nick-jonas-as-investors.html
 * https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/15/business/cold-storage-covid-vaccine.html
 * https://thespoon.tech/ember-to-bring-its-temperature-tech-to-reusable-cold-chain-packaging/
 * https://www.packagingdigest.com/pharmaceutical-packaging/reusable-cube-provides-safe-passage-temperature-sensitive-drugs
 * A piece about Ember's relocation to the new headquarters: https://www.cbre.ca/en/press-releases/ember-thousand-oaks
 * Clay selling his lightbulb to GE: https://www.designcurial.com/news/ge-lumination-acquires-journ-e-s-led-module-technology
 * What else can I provide?? Nsands901 (talk) 21:50, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep.  Merge into the company/mug page First up, one editor here saying "we" does strongly suggest a conflict of interest. Secondly, I was about to vote delete, after finding nothing because I searched for "Clayton Alexander". But if I search for "Clay Alexander" I find:
 * https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/04/ember-smart-coffee-mug-has-joe-and-nick-jonas-as-investors.html it does include quotes, so imperfect
 * https://www.inc.com/kevin-j-ryan/ember-mug-inventor-wants-to-put-computer-chips-in-all-dishes.html also an interview (I don't know how reliable this site is, the reliable sources ntice board did not help)
 * https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/news/2022/01/11/transformational-coffee-warming-mug/9158223002/ brief mention of him, more about his invention, also includes interview
 * https://time.com/5023212/best-inventions-of-2017/ talks about his invention, again an interview.
 * So at this point, I could keep searching, but knowing WP:CREATIVE infers notability for people who invented a something, I think he passes that. CT55555 (talk) 22:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much!!! We can definitely change his name to "Clay Alexander," if that helps? He definitely goes by Clay, as opposed to Clayton. Nsands901 (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Who is "we" in this question; and can you please answer the question on your talk page? CT55555 (talk) 22:47, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm new to Wiki - sorry, which question on my talk page? Nsands901 (talk) 22:53, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Click on the link in my question. It's the one where someone else asks you if you know Clay Alexander. CT55555 (talk) 23:15, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, you say here that you are in the PR team for C Alexander's company.
 * You have a conflict of interest and should not participate further in this discussion and editing the article. If you have edit requests, you should suggest them on the talk page. CT55555 (talk) 23:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Do I suggest edits on your talk page or mine? Nsands901 (talk) 23:46, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You should suggest them on the page in question. i.e. for this one, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Clayton_Alexander CT55555 (talk) 23:56, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment The only thing I see as being notable is the temperature control mug, it has links to Wired and CNET in the Ember Tech article. Even those are not much. I'd still prefer to delete these articles, the fact that the PR guy keeps trying to keep them tells me it isn't notable. He's given podcast summaries and company websites as reliable sources. The inventor just isn't notable for our purposes here. Oaktree b (talk) 01:37, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I voted !keep, but I do find the argument that the temperature control mug is the notable thing here agreeable. I don't know what to do that that detail, but maybe that should have an article more than the inventor of it. CT55555 (talk) 15:46, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I think you mean you !voted "keep" ("not a vote", not "not keep"). If the mug is considered notable (I don't think so but opinions vary), than !vote to "keep" Ember Technologies (the producer of the mug) and "delete" Clayton Alexander, or redirect Alexander's bio to the Ember article. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 20:15, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You caught my error correctly. And I agree, but I guess merge this content into Ember? I think I'll do that, but checking if that seems logical to you (respecting that you disagree on the mug-notability). CT55555 (talk) 20:18, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd wait on any merge until this discussion is done. As both the biograph and the corporate page are nominated for deletion, the decision might come down to delete both. Or neither. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 20:28, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, sorry, I worded that badly to. I was asking about voting merge, not actually merging content. CT55555 (talk) 21:50, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: A merger of Clayton Alexander to Ember Technologies was suggested by a couple of participants and I'd like to see whether this option has support over an outright deletion of both articles. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:03, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per Wikipedia:Too soon. Generally the topic seems to be notable, but not enough media/reportage independent sources. --Morpho achilles (talk) 15:02, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Many, many, many sources have been added above. Nsands901 (talk) 16:24, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Morpho achilles Your comment doesn't make much sense. GNG defines notability as having "sufficiently significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time". If there isn't "enough media/reportage independent sources" then it's not notable by that defninition. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 17:28, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @ONUnicorn I wrote "seems to be notable", I didn't write "it's notable" or "it's definitely notable". In other words, the topic is interesting and possibly notable, but not this time. That is why I wrote from the start: Wikipedia:Too soon. Morpho achilles (talk) 20:59, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment To be clear, I oppose a merge, because I don't feel that Ember Technologies is notable either. They've made a single notable product (a $149 internet-connected coffee mug) that got some notice, but otherwise seem to be a run-of-the-mill tech startup. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:34, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment The company page fails NCORP criteria for establishing notability and I don't believe there are sufficient references for the inventor, Clayton, to pass WP:CREATIVE or any other guideline either. But I suggest that there are sufficient references for the "Ember Mug" product to pass NCORP criteria and that the existing articles are redirected to Ember Mug with the focus changed to be on the product. I'm happy to draft an article on the product to kickstart the process if this suggestion achieves consensus.  HighKing++ 11:26, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I find that agreeable. CT55555 (talk) 11:34, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete, due to lack of significant coverage about this living person, or merge into Ember Technologies, for which I do not have an educated opinion about. Bearian (talk) 21:32, 20 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.