Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cliff, Michigan


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Clifton, Michigan. The content is under the re-direct if someone wishes to merge sourced information to the target. Star  Mississippi  01:15, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Cliff, Michigan

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Non-notable place. Fails WP:GEO and WP:V. What is a "viable place"? Nothing found when searching for more sources.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 13:36, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Michigan-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 13:52, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 13:52, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It appears that this source is about the mine that gave the place its name.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:20, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Rename to Cliff Mine (Michigan). The source I linked to above states "is the first successful mine in the Michigan Copper District and dates from 1845." The mine appears to be notable, but the place is just whatever residents grew up just around the mine.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:20, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This source suggests the mine is in Phoenix, Michigan. That apparently is an unincorporated place in the county.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:22, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I will need to see if I can find more sources. The two places may have been the same, and people may have used different names for the same mine. It is also less than clear that Phoenix, Michigan is still a place. It may be miscategorized as such, and maybe should be recategorized to the former populated places category.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:24, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a YouTube video from the County convention and visitor beaureau on the place. Not by any stetch a reliable source, let alone indepdent, but it shows we are dealing with something. .John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:28, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to Phoenix, Michigan for the time being. We need better sourcing to sort this out. I know people have written books about Michigan's copper country. I have no idea if they would add better sourcing on this place.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:28, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge to Clifton, Michigan. My searching in google books suggests that this is the actual place where the mine was at, and we have a better sourced article on that place. Phoenix, Michigan may in turn be another name for the place. Someone would probably want to look at the sourcing more to figure this out.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:32, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * google books here suggests there are two books that mention the mine in the title. There are other books on Michigan copper country that might say something about this place, especially if this was in fact the first successful mine. Even though I live in Michigan, I have never even been to the UP, let alone Copper Country, so I do not have a good sense of the spacial issues involved in the place.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:34, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I found this book published by Wayne State University Press in 1991. In the intriduction (thus the part written by a modern scholar, and thus a secondary not a primary source) it explicitly states that Clifton was also know as "Cliff". . So we have sourcing that This is an alternate name for Cliff.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:39, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Clifton, Michigan as an alternate, informal name. I don't really see any meaningful content worthy to be merged. Clifton, Michigan needs serious improvements and footnotes, btw. Cavarrone 10:25, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Clifton, Michigan. The book Michigan Place Names (Romig 1986) has two separate listings for Cliff and Clifton.  For Cliff, it states, "Keweenaw County; the village grew up around the Cliff Mine founded by the Pittsburg & Boston Company in 1844; named by John Hayes, a Pittsburg pharmacist turned prospector, from its location below a high bluff; one of the most profitable of copper mines, it was sold to the Cliff Mining Company in 1871, who in turn sold it to the Tamarack Mining Company in 1880; now the mine a ruin and its village a ghost town."  For Clifton, it states, "Keweenaw County; the Clifton Mine (copper) was opened in 1852; the North American Mine post office was transferred to and renamed Clifton on Feb. 24, 1853... the Clifton Mine was closed in 1855 but the Clifton post office operated until Dec. 3, 1884."  My only other source on the matter Michigan Ghost Towns (Dodge 1973) lists both communities, but for Cliff, it merely reads, "Cliff—See Clifton" and right below that has several paragraphs for Clifton.  It sounds like they might have been separate but very similar communities.  However, Cliff doesn't appear to have any useful information available, while Clifton has more information for its own article. —Notorious4life (talk) 04:10, 23 January 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.