Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Co-Counselling International


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ to Co-counselling or a section thereof Star   Mississippi  00:53, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Co-Counselling International

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Contested blank-and-redirect to Co-counselling. Insufficient secondary coverage of this organization, and article is promotional. Walsh90210 (talk) 19:11, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:04, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Co-counselling: though even that section needs a lot of work and potentially shouldn't exist at all. No WP:SIGCOV of the organization. No point in merging anything because the content missing from co-counselling is all promotional junk. The BLAR was contested by John Talbut, an employee of the organization — if you're going to continue editing these articles, please disclose your COI on the talk page of the article to avoid confusion.  C F A   💬  20:15, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: I've removed most of the blatant unsourced promo from the main article's section.  C F A   💬  20:17, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * And I found and added a Guardian article that covers a lot about this organization's origins. Anyone should feel free to mine it for more. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:43, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * CCI is a peer network that I have been active in for many years. It does not have employees. People who teach co-counselling, of which I am one, may be paid, usually by participants or in some cases by outside organisations such as schools or colleges. John Talbut (talk) 08:43, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You literally have "Formerly UK Contact Person for Co-Counselling International (CCI)" listed on your profile. Regardless, this is still a conflict of interest that has to be appropriately disclosed.  C F A   💬  03:50, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * As the link shows, I am not anonymous and my biography is publicly available.John Talbut (talk) 11:52, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment I had to get to the categories before I found out this article is about counseling as in mental health and not counseling as in lawyers. EDIT: Fixed and sourced. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:37, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Psychology-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  00:11, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 19:27, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The article is simply descriptive of Co-Counselling International as it is. There is plenty of secondary cover available, as can be seen here: https://www.co-counselling.info/en/biblio John Talbut (talk) 12:21, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I could not find a single paper on the website you linked that was secondary. They were all written by Co-counselling International. Some of them, in fact, were written by you. This is not secondary coverage at all.  C F A   💬  03:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * What are you trying to do? Co-Counselling International is an active international network as is evident from following the web links referenced. You seem to be trying to delete most references to it. Do you have a COI? Co-Counselling International does not write anything, all contributions are made by and are the responsibility of individuals. Naturally a lot of the references are internal because they are about the network. If you think the article needs improvement please suggest how. John Talbut (talk) 11:34, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I do not have a COI. I had never seen this article before it was listed at AfD. Being an "active international network" means nothing when it comes to notability. Please read the notability guidelines for organizations:
 * A company, corporation, organization, group, product, or service is presumed notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject.
 * There is not significant coverage of this organization in independent, reliable sources — which means it is not notable enough to have a Wikipedia article. The references you listed above are all not independent of the subject and thus do not count towards notability. If you have any policy-based evidence that the organization is notable (WP:NORG), now would be a good time to share it.  C F A   💬  16:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Objection to AfD secondary references independent of subject https://www.academia.edu/33733482/My_Early_Engagement_with_Humanistic_Psychology
 * Also
 * https://www.martinwilks.com/research/1.1Co-counselling.htm
 * which is best accessed from http://www.martinwilks.com/my-research/ Pbgvbiker (talk) 21:19, 9 July 2024 (UTC) — Pbgvbiker (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Source one is written by John Heron, the founder (?) of Co-Counselling International: the exact opposite of independent. Neither is the page you listed — the author is involved with the organization. Not sure about its reliability either way. On another note, it's interesting how this account has only ever made one edit: the reply above to this seemingly-random AfD. .  C F A   💬  21:29, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Redirect to Co-counselling. The Guardian piece has a single-paragraph WP:TRIVIALMENTION of this organization. The sources related to John Heron or the South Pacific Centre for Human Inquiry fail the test of independence from CCI. It's a complete fail to meet the standards of WP:NORG. (The redirect target itself needs a lot of work for NPOV, essay issues and apparent pseudoscience but that's for another day.) Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:02, 22 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.