Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cologne patricians


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. No prejudice to competent recreation.  Sandstein  22:41, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Cologne patricians

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It looks like an attempt to create family genealogy. Some statements look like an invention and fiction. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 13:50, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Another of the family tree articles where none are notable, this article fails WP:GNG. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:07, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. 2601:188:0:ABE6:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 19:25, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. clpo13(talk) 08:17, 4 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Comment The topic is certainly notable, and a translation of the German Wikipedia article on it would, I think, be welcome. However, very little or none of the present article would be likely to survive in an acceptable article on the topic - it concentrates on one particular family (admittedly, apparently the most important one during the 13th and 14th centuries, the main period of patrician dominance in Cologne), presumably because it uses as (unreliable) sources genealogical websites and 19th century books on the then leading families of St. Louis, one of which claimed descent from the family concerned. At that, the article leaves it entirely unclear that over a century elapsed between the Battle of Worringen and the entirely unrelated dispute that led to the (partial) expulsion of the leading patrician families (apparently including the St. Louis branch's ancestors) from Cologne. Basically, Wikipedia will lose nothing worth having by the article's deletion unless it gets thoroughly rewritten meanwhile. PWilkinson (talk) 19:12, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment: As PWilkinson points out, the subject of the Cologne patriciate is notable, and so (judging from the German article) is the Overstolz family, but this looks like a WP:TNT case. If the claim about Roman origins, taken at face value in this article, is indicative of the quality of the work behind the rest of the article, starting from scratch seems like a better idea. --Hegvald (talk) 10:02, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment I support another article being created, but this one has no encyclopedic value. If someone unconflicted and fluent in German wants to translate the German article, then that would be fine. This family tree thing is not though. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:06, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:46, 9 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.