Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Concert Ten


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was keep; the article is sourced now. Sandstein (talk) 22:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Concert Ten

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Delete Non notable concert per WP:NMG. Cannot find reliable source to substantiate notability claims. Veritas (talk) 04:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment. Please disregard this nomination. Viriditas is a disruptive wikipedian and is merely engaging in aggravated harrassment towards me by going around Wikipedia using my username, searching out articles that I have written or added to, and nominating them for deletion, just for spite, in some sort of major edit war. He has disrupted the entire Hippie article for over a year by engaging in edit wars with at least a dozen people, basically commandeered the article so nobody else can edit it, and I have made mention of this fact is several talk pages. His answer to this is to search out my writings to have them deleted. In my opinion, Viriditas is a disruptive editor and needs to have his use of Wikipedia curtailed. What he is doing now is an act of Wiki-terrorism.Morgan Wright (talk) 05:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep now that some sources have begun to turn up. May be useful to redirect to a general "rock festivals" page in the near future if it can't be expanded past Start-Class. (this comment was added 01:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)) Delete  I am not Veritas, but I support deleting the article if WP:RS cannot be found.  Morgan, can you look through the archives of the Pocono, Pennsylvania newspapers to see if you can find anything?  As it stands, the article does not meet the basic requirements of WP:NMG. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 05:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I also would like to state my belief that Viriditas and Veritas are two accounts being used by the same person. I got an email from Viriditas that the Concert 10 article was in question, and that he was nominating it for deletion. This is an extremely obscure article that is almost never visited. Then when I see the nomination for deletion, it was by Veritas. Many times I have seen these two accounts being used in tandem, and much too often for it to be a coincidence. It is clear that these are two sock puppets of the same person, who has not even given his real name. I would like the powers that be, to investigate these two accounts to make sure they are not sock puppets of the same disruptive individual.Morgan Wright (talk) 05:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. To the best of my knowledge, I have not sent you any e-mails. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 05:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Please stop making that accusation per WP:AGF or request a sock check at WP:SUSPSOCK--Veritas (talk) 05:21, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Prior to this nom, I asked WikiProjct Rock Music to look into this topic.  I will now notify the project about the deletion request. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 05:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete No sources to prove that this event ever actually took place. Without that, it doesn't matter who the other two people here are. DarkAudit (talk) 05:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. There are two sources that I've found for the event: 1) Someone who runs or has access to the "Hyzer Creek Disc Golf Course"  in Saratoga Springs, New York, scanned a photo of the flyer and uploaded it to their personal website:  2) the New York Public Library "Inventory of Clipping Files (Subjects), [ca. 1895- ]" has a folder containing documents about the event in their possession:  However, the web entry does not have any detailed information except for the following accession data: "Concert Ten (festival) 1 folder Used for: Poconos Rock Festival".  The NYPL website says that the folder contains "clippings from newspapers, magazines and other ephemeral items, documenting all aspects of music." I am under the impression that the creator of the article  lives in that area.  I would ask that he visit the  Music Division at the New York Public Library for the Performing Arts at 40 Lincoln Center Plaza and make an appointment to access the folder. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 05:53, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Here is a convincing source to prove that it took place. I added this reference to the article and the person who calls himself Veritas and Viriditas deleted the reference.  I think it should be clear from this that the person and his two sock puppets are engagin in edit wars and should be blocked from Wikipedia.Morgan Wright (talk) 05:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 'Keep a festival at Mount Pocono is mentioned in the Rolling Stones Encyclopedia of Rock n Roll. The book Without You: The Tragic Story of Badfinger lists them as playing at Mount Pocono on 8 July 1972. Catchpole (talk) 10:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I think we've already established that the concert took place, but does the source you reference support the text in the current article?  What is notable about this concert?  Should we have articles on every concert?  &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 12:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If a six figure attendance can be confirmed then that looks like a reasonable indication of notability to me. Otherwise possibilites are to redirect to Pocono Raceway or Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania and mention the event there. Catchpole (talk) 13:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Where do you get six figures from? Searching for the term you've introduced, "Mount Pocono" gives me two sources listing a figure of 200,000 people:  a trivia page for a Rock Music course at Georgetown University classifies it as one of "The Most Famous Rock Festivals" "; and a book on Gbooks titled "Protecting Dissent, Policing Disorder" published by the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration in 1974 lists the same number.  A magazine ad in Billboard magazine on eBay claims 250,000.  With all of this in mind, we are left with a small stub consisting of less than 25 words, considering that the other information Morgan added cannot be verified and is found in blogs and web forums.  Now, I did point to the archive at the NYPL, but until someone can get their hands on that all we have is a stub.  I suggest redirecting to Rock festival (where a link to the festival already exists) until this archive can be accessed by someone in New York. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 13:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment The sources belong in the article, not the AfD. Even if the flyer is genuine, a personal website is not considered a reliable secondary source. DarkAudit (talk) 13:52, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Can someone e-mail Dr. Burnette (Sonny_Burnette AT georgetowncollege.edu) and get his take on this?  He's the one who calls this concert one of "The Most Famous Rock Festivals". (see link above)  His bibliography can be found here so he's obviously getting this information from at least one of the books on that list.  We also know there is an archive of material about this concert at the NYPL, but unless one has access to the physical collection, we can't get at it.  &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 14:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I was at the concert myself when I was 16 (I'm 52 now) and remember people in the crowd were saying they heard there were 300,000, but of course they were guessing and spreading rumors. It is my impression that it was not as big as Woodstock, but I did not go to Woodstock so I cannot say. I am no expert at estimating crowds. I would believe the 200,000 figure as well as the 250,000 figure. There were about 20 acres of cars parked, although they were not parked very tightly, and this is also an estimate. I've been to concerts that had 10,000, this was at least 20 or 30 times bigger, and I've been to baseball stadiums filled with 40,000 and of course this was many times bigger. The problem with finding local newspaper articles to cite is that I have to get in my car and drive to NYC (200 miles) or the Poconos (250 miles) and I'm not really that into this article, sorry to say. I know you think this is very important to me. It is actually quite unimportant. But I thank the people who have done the legwork on finding sources.Morgan Wright (talk) 15:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. You are very welcome. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 15:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. Don't mention it, Veritas. Morgan Wright (talk) 15:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'm removing the blog reference you added as it seems to be trying to sell the Rhapsody (online music service) and it is not a "reliable preiodical" as you claimed on your talk page. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 16:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep now that reliable sources have been added. -- M P er el 01:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep : A reliable source has been added indicating the notability. Europe22 (talk) 22:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep I believe there is agreement that there are enough references, will somebody please rem. the nomination tag from the main article?69.116.202.26 (talk) 20:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC) — 69.116.202.26 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Morgan, AfD's generally remain open for at least 5 days after nomination. --Veritas (talk) 22:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.