Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congregation Beth Israel (Malden, Massachusetts)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Deor (talk) 12:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Congregation Beth Israel (Malden, Massachusetts)

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Article lacks independent, reliable sources. I was unable to find significant sources per WP:BEFORE. TM 21:28, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:30, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:30, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:30, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Make that keep, per Arxiloxos' research below—some (but not all) of those articles constitute significant coverage. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 18:29, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep because the article is a WP:STUB that has started with a couple of WP:V & WP:RS. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 22:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * NOTE: Nominator, User aka "TM", seems to have started an arbitrary process of eliminating articles about Orthodox Judaism synagogues from Category:Orthodox synagogues in the United States, he is requested to stop this process of mass nominations for deletions without further discussions and requests for improvement of the articles. So far he has nominated for deletion these articles: Articles for deletion/Congregation Tiferes Yisroel (2nd nomination) & Articles for deletion/Congregation Arugas Habosem & Articles for deletion/Anshei Sfard (Louisville, Kentucky) & Articles for deletion/Beth HaMedrosh Hagodol-Beth Joseph & Articles for deletion/Temple Anshe Amunim (Pittsfield, Massachusetts) & Articles for deletion/Congregation Shomrei Emunah that looks like its heading for mass deletions in this area. The nominator is requested to consider WP:DONOTDEMOLISH and WP:CHANCE and to please start a discussion or a WP:RFC if he feels such articles are not up to snuff at a venue of his choosing, or at WP:TALKJUDAISM that would make the most sense. Quite frankly this is not the best time to start a move to delete any synagogue articles given that the current Israel-Gaza conflict is now so hot that it is spilling over into attacks on synagogues in France, see Protesters scuffle with police at Paris synagogues (AP, July 13, 2014), and the problem is growing, so it behooves any editor undertaking such deletions to proceed with great care in order to avoid any semblance of impropriety until the temperature surrounding the role and place of synagogues as current flashpoints of conflict stops. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 22:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Request for Comment: An RfC that concerns this AfD has been opened. Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 22:51, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 *  Weak delete  (Changed to Keep, see below. הסרפד  (call me Hasirpad) 18:29, 14 July 2014 (UTC) : Early 20th-century results do not seem to indicate notability. There seems to have been a substantial Jewish community in Malden around 1920, but this synagogue, though occasionally mentioned in passing, does not seem to have received much attention. One of its rabbis, Rabbi (Ber?/Boruch?) Boruchoff, may have been notable, (see, , ) but not so his congregation. As for contemporary results, nothing but directory listings and social media, as far as I can tell.  הסרפד  (call me Hasirpad) 23:44, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * (aka "Hasirpad") what makes any synagogue "notable"? and if as you admit there are refs to the notability of even one of its important rabbis then that in itself suffices for WP:V & WP:RS and WP:N. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 23:57, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * What makes things notable on Wikipedia is well explained at the pages you just linked to, and the sources I cited do not make this synagogue notable. As for inherited notability from its rabbi, many sources refer to Rabbi Boruchoff merely as "the rabbi of Malden" and neglect to mention his officiating in this synagogue, which only emphasizes how unremarkable a congregation it was, historically. If you want to save the article, I suggest you focus on its contemporary notability, if any. הסרפד  (call me Hasirpad) 00:02, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * (aka "Hasirpad"), you seem to miss what is going on here, that User has so far nominated 7 articles about synagogues for AfDs and 8 more as PRODS, so it is hard to keep up with him at this pace. The WP:CIVIL and right thing for him to have done, was to make efforts to make his intentions known at a forum such as WP:TALKJUDAISM or anywhere else of his choosing and then asked for help and volunteers to improve the articles he seems to WP:IJUSTDONTLIKEIT. Then it would have created the right environment to proceed and improve the articles and not argue over them as they face mass deletions. As you know editing takes time, we are short of Judaic editors in this area and the original editors and creators of these articles are gone now, so we are faced with a challenge while all that Namiba is doing is throwing out the baby with the bathwater because these articles are important parts of Jewish American history, and at a minimum if they are not up to snuff they can be incorporated into better sections of other articles rather than face this brutal process that Namiba has instituted and that you seem to agree with and abetting judging by your uncaring attitude to the significance that synagogues play in organized Jewish life anywhere. Thanks IZAK (talk) 00:57, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * (aka "Hasirpad") note that the key word "Congregation" because this article (and similar ones) are about congregations, not just the buildings in which they worship. Also, on WP there are general consensuses relating to deletion that aren't formally codified in the deletion guidelines; for example, there is apparently some long-standing consensus that every single high school on the planet is notable, regardless of age, size of student body, availability of reliable secondary sources, etc. Along those lines, there appears to be a general consensus that significant age does impart at least some degree of notability to a synagogue, despite what the subjective importance essay says. IZAK (talk) 06:57, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Community input has been requested, see Village pump (miscellaneous). Thank you, IZAK (talk) 06:23, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete&mdash;per הסרפד. Lesser Cartographies (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep because the congregation is an important part of the history of Malden and is a work in progress. User:Terageorge — Preceding undated comment added 12:01, 14 July 2014 (UTC) :
 * User:Terageorge, Wikipedia's WP:NOTABILITY guidelines do not define what is important. As for the 'work in progress' agreement, this article was started on July 17, 2008. 5 years is a long time to be a 'work in progress'.--TM 13:15, 14 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. Multiple reliable sources (including The New York Times) document, among other things, this congregation's historical role and its unusual financial efforts to revive its community. Other examples:  (the last 3 are duplicates of the AP story).  Finding sources here requires some patience because searches also yield many hits relating to Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:54, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep -- established for over a century, which is a good claim to significance; enough information is available to show it's a significant part of the community.  DGG ( talk ) 00:37, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep The claim of notability for the institution is backed by the reliable and verifiable sources added to the article. Alansohn (talk) 17:44, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete - The notability and resources issues.--Aaronshavit (talk) 22:58, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.