Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Conservative wave


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) Shawn Teller (talk) 01:47, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Conservative wave

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE. It is just a random listing of centre and right-wing governments in Latin America, with no clear context of what would tie them all together as a unity. There used to be a "Background" section, that I removed because it had no actual relation with the article (it was focused solely on Brazil, and discussed a perceived cultural hegemony of the left in the 1980s and 1990s).

The leaders of the Pink Tide have the common project of the "Patria Grande" (basically, a reenactment of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics but in South and Central America), but there is no right-wing analog project that unites the right-wing presidents in a similar way. As it can be seen in each individual entry, those leaders stayed focused on their own domestic contexts, and none mentions other countries.

To make things worse, there are no clear temporal boundaries, so anyone can be included. And the distinction at the list between "center-right" and "right" seems original research: who can measure the "degree of right" to classify things this way and not another? Cambalachero (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Conservatism, Politics,  and Latin America. Cambalachero (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star   Mississippi  17:54, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. While I agree with nearly all your points, and I think the article needs a major rewrite, there was a generally a conservative shift in Latin American governments in the mid 2010's that was observed by political scientists and pundits. This phenomenon is worthy of an article, despite not being a movement in any real sense. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 20:29, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 01:17, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. I agree with your point but this shift of events was very notable in the 2010s. `~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 20:17, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Final relist. More opinions are welcome. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Timothytyy (talk) 04:07, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep It's a definite phenomenon, and was observed in numerous reliable sources. Article needs a lot of work, but should be kept. Unknown-Tree (talk) 01:48, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Source 1 in the article makes no mention of "conservative wave" or "blue wave" in its text. Source 2 same, with only a single mention of "conservatism" or "conservative" between them. Contrary to the above !votes (which provide a sum of zero demonstration of their claims) I have not found anything that ties these governments together in reliable sources. Fails GNG as a concept. A lot of sources mostly speak about the United States, while many sections of the article go on a WP:COATRACK about corruption. Draftify and apply TNT at the very least, but even I struggle to justify that with the lack of appropriate sourcing. At best this is currently a SYNTH and at worst, pure OR. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (work / talk) 15:07, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment, hoping this causes a ping...I'm optimistic that if you read my justification below it might be persuasive. CT55555 (talk) 02:22, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have this on watchlist, but in the future I'll get notifications if you use or  . I can look everything over later, but if this is closed as keep it will need a rewrite (probably still in draftspace) to better explain how or why these governments are tied together. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (work / talk) 16:08, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Keep. It is a notable thing, and the translated version of the name is notable and found in reliable sources. You can see that most easily by going to https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onda_conservadora and searching the citations for "conservadora" and you'll see the following https://www.bbc.com/portuguese/internacional-39459751 as well as eight other sources using the exact phrase. (talk) 02:20, 2 March 2023 (UTC)


 * That article fails the WP:GNG, as it is just trivial coverage. The article is about the elections in Ecuador, and only mentions in passing the "onda conservadora". And that, only to list other governments with a similar political alignment, without adding any further information. It only proves that WP:ITEXISTS, but Existence does not prove notability. Can you cite a news article that actually discusses this "Onda conservadora" as its main topic? Cambalachero (talk) 14:00, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Here are some examples, the first two from the links in the Wikipedia Portuguese article, the second from the Wikipedia Library:
 * https://www.pagina12.com.ar/39228-la-restauracion-conservadora-comenzo-con-mi-derrocamiento
 * https://veja.abril.com.br/coluna/noblat/derrota-poe-em-questao-o-avanco-da-onda-conservadora-por-gilmar-mendes/
 * DA SILVEIRA SOARES, JMM The conservative wave: essays on the current dark times in Brazil. In Pauta, [sl] , v. 15, no. 39, p. 271–275, 2017. DOI 10.12957/rep.2017.30390. Available at: https://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=a9h&AN=125530061&site=eds-live&scope=site. Accessed on: 2 Mar. 2023.
 * CT55555 (talk) 14:27, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Reference 1 is an interview, reference 2 is an editorial. Neither is valid as a reference for statements of truth, just for "X says something", and can't be the sole references of the article. The third one is only for subscribers, but I found part of it (if not the whole thing, it's CC-BY after all) in here. It's all about just Brazil, and the "conservative wave" of the title is only a reference to Bolsonaro and his supporters. Cambalachero (talk) 16:05, 2 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.