Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Constant Detré


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Geschichte (talk) 08:52, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Constant Detré

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:GNG. Much of the article seems to be a variation of WP:FANCRUFT (not surprisingly, the majority of the citations are from a fan website made by the subject's daughter; the article's creator also noted that the article was created in association with this daughter). Disregarding this, I can't find many sources to confirm this artist as notable. Lettlerhello • contribs 03:40, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Lettlerhello • contribs 03:40, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Lettlerhello • contribs 03:40, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Lettlerhello • contribs 03:40, 30 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete Non-notable artist, who's life is hard to piece together from scant sources. If you can't find anything about him, he isn't notable. Did he appear in a salon or feature in any art galleries? If not, he's just an average person who liked to paint. Oaktree b (talk) 20:07, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
 *  Delete  and it's kind of sad to vote this way. The artist has an entry in Benezit, and I've added two references from it. For a family memorial page, it is beautifully written and enjoyable to read. Much appears to be cobbled together from family histories and source material that doesn't fit our notion of reliable sources. Aside from sales/retrospectives in 1967 and 1969 that yielded thin catalogues, there is surprisingly little information on the artist, especially one who consorted with well-known figures. I checked newspapers.com, hathitrust.org, and archive.org in a search for print sources without success. If anyone has better luck I might change my vote. Curiocurio (talk) 02:59, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Switch to Keep based on the Benezit and Hungarian (Németh et al.) source. The Hôtel Drouot sales also provide a secondary measure of notability, in particular the 1967 retrospective catalogue. Curiocurio (talk) 21:36, 2 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep. I am currently researching this artist on Hungarian websites and national libraries. I've added a couple of sources already, but I will need some time to go through the Hungarian sources. I ran into the same problem writing articles on other Hungarian artists, such as Joseph Csaky and Gustave Miklos: names in Hungarian are reversed and accents are important in online searches (e.g., Csáky József, Miklós Gusztáv). I will need a few days most likely. Coldcreation (talk) 07:55, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I just added a Further reading section, with four entries. The Németh András et al document in particular has some detailed information on the artist (in Hungarian) that I have yet to adapt in English to the article, as a source. Some of the information is already in the article but there is further material of interest. So, I will need a few days to go through these. I have only just begun the search in Hungarian. Thank you Curiocurio for your contribution (if you reconsider your vote in light of the newly added material it would be much appreciated. That way, too, I will have a chance to research further). Coldcreation (talk) 11:56, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I used the Hungarian reference (via Google Translate) as in inline citation which is what the article currently lacks. Referencing the artist's personal website is not helpful because it counts as a primary (and biased) source and doesn't contribute to notability. The Hungarian source appears to be a good one and what is needed is more articles or books in the same vein. Curiocurio (talk) 15:05, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * There are several other notable/reliable Hungarian sources, in addition to Németh András et al. Hopefully this coming week I'll have more time to address them. Coldcreation (talk) 22:35, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * This website says one of his works is in the Hungarian National Gallery. If that could be confirmed, it would be an automatic keep. I was unable to verify it. Curiocurio (talk) 23:34, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I have not yet confirmed the presence of the artists work at the Hungarian National Gallery. However, the fact that his work continues to be auctioned in Paris at Hôtel Drouot is a good indication that he was not "just an average person who liked to paint". Hôtel Drouot is the Parisian equivalent to Christie's or Sotheby's. The selection process for entry into sales at Drouot (through the Commissaire-priseurs) is as stringent as it is for the major British counterparts. The recent improvements at the Constant Detré article show that the artist—while not as renown as members of his entourage—was in fact notable. That said, I will delve further into Hungarian references shortly. Coldcreation (talk) 09:12, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep - While the article in it's current state is poorly written fancruft, and possibly a COI creation, he is included in the Benezit Dictionary of Artists which means the subject meets WP:ANYBIO criteria. I think the article should be pruned to the basic facts and verifiable sources, and could exist as a short article. Netherzone (talk) 19:10, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - as it has a good start on the sources, of course more can always be added, but it is a good start in verifying that it meets WP:GNG. --Clarkcj12 (talk) 08:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Clarkcj12 (talk) 16:20, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep for the newly identified sources. — Toughpigs (talk) 20:18, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep, obvious keep per discussion and post-nomination improvement. Randy Kryn (talk) 10:32, 10 November 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.