Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Consultative Council (Poland)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. A merger discussion can continue on the Talk, if needed. It's clear no further input is forthcoming here. Star  Mississippi  02:19, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Consultative Council (Poland)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Consultative council was an organ created by Polish Woman's Strike it was set up as a try to create an official representation of protestors during 2020 October's abortion protest in front of the government. I have doubt if this council differs so much in comparision to Woman's Strike itself. In my opinion, this article should be merged as parto of woman's strike article. Council was strongly active during some first mounths of protests, however most of theirs demands were not fullfilled. During that time, abortion protest were so much vocal topic in polish media. That's why some polish reductions wrritten articles reffering to the council's propositions. After the three years since this protests, that informal organization turned out to be not influential in discourse of polish public debate. Consultative council still exists as far as I remember but it's activity is only limited to broadcasting at its Fb funpage. I do not see any aspect of the notability of this council The Wolak (talk) 16:48, 23 October 2023 (UTC) I disagree with Bound's arguments about being mentioned in one sceintific article and some newspapers. Fact that an inciative exists, does not judge its notability. Describing a consultative council in barerly one scientific article is not enought to claim notability. Moreover, as you writing "inactive" I meant that council was working and being vocal in polish public sphere by some weeks of protests. But now, it's not mentioned and it's activity it is not reffered by media now, which does not meet with temporality criteria to be recognised as notable The Wolak (talk) 11:56, 27 October 2023 (UTC) Relisting comment: Even split between keep and merge Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Guerillero Parlez Moi 21:31, 31 October 2023 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:39, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, News media, Sexuality and gender,  and Poland. The Wolak (talk) 16:48, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions.  WC  Quidditch   ☎   ✎  19:17, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Social science, Politics,  and Discrimination. Boud (talk) 22:44, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge with All-Poland Women's Strike per nom Marcelus (talk) 11:01, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep - There are two different arguments presented for merge/deletion: (1) is the Council distinct from OSK (Women's Strike)? (2) has the Council been active and influential during 2022/2023 or has it become effectively inactive?(1) International researchers, at least one international NGO and a Polish newspaper see the council as having (at least for some time) included public participation way beyond Women's Strike itself: 500 people according to Kampka & Oross, not just an activist group of 5-10 key people. The researchers see this in the wider context of the evolution (or non-evolution) of constitutional and general participatory democracy in Hungary and Poland in the post-communist period. That's a different topic to an activist group. A protest group is a different sociological object than a group that aims to be something like a shadow government or constituent assembly. The key members are also clearly different. Per the sourced info in the two articles, OSK lists Marta Lempart, Klementyna Suchanow and Katarzyna Kotula; while the Council membership appears to be completely different. Moreover, the Council membership covers people individually active on a wide variety of different issues including the climate emergency, health services, education and secularism, way beyond women's rights as such.(2) Whether the Council continued to be influential (as an organised body) after the first few months of 2021 is not relevant to its notability. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a news guide to the current state of politics. The Council was notable in late 2020/early 2021 per the sources, and is of academic interest at least per the 2023 book chapter.There is plenty of WP:SIGCOV in the Polish press and from international organisations. In particular, the bomb threats of Feb/Mar 2021 in themselves tend to be evidence of notability in the case of a citizens' organisation that threatens the political status quo. The threats against the Council attracted international human rights NGO attention (Human Rights Watch, Civicus, International Planned Parenthood Federation).A merge wouldn't make sense, and WP:GNG is satisfied, so I don't see any justification to delete. Boud (talk) 22:26, 26 October 2023 (UTC) (clarification to point (1) Boud (talk) 22:55, 26 October 2023 (UTC))
 * Keep per comments and sources identified by . Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 23:04, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Merge to All-Poland Women's Strike. I looked at the sources and I am hard pressed to find WP:SIGCOV and independent discussion outside of the Strike. The council is mentioned in passing here and there, but I don't think it meets WP:GNG as an independent entity. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 13:26, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hypothesis of [not an] independent entity: The sources link the Council to OSK (All-Poland Women's Strike) because OSK launched it, and they distinguish the Council from similarly named groups. The sources on the Council mostly cover the broad range of human rights/environmental rights specialist activities of the Council members and what they campaign for - they present the Council as a broad entity distinct from OSK. I don't see anything in the sources claiming that the Council is controlled by OSK.We have no sources stating that senior Polish activists on the Council whose political record goes back to the 1980s period of fighting against the Communist government - such as Beata Chmiel and Danuta Kuroń - are controlled by the OSK activists, who are clearly of a younger, post-communist generation (the named OSK members were aged around 10, 15 and 12 in 1989 per their Wikipedia articles). Nor do we have sources stating that the very young Polish activists on the Council - such as Dominika Lasota and Nadia Oleszczuk - likely too young and idealistic to be controlled by established activists - are controlled by OSK. The hypothesis that the Council is controlled by OSK despite the Council's wide demographic (and political) diversity is not supported by any sources. OSK was involved in creating the Council, but no sources establish dependence beyond the initial creation. [Analogy: the president of Poland formally creates the government of Poland, but the prime minister + ministers exist as a body (the "Council of Ministers") distinct from the president.] Boud (talk) 22:00, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.