Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Controversies surrounding Royal Dutch Shell


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus to delete, default to keep. Sandstein 21:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Controversies surrounding Royal Dutch Shell

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Yeouch! This article is nothing more than a POV fork largely created by a single user through original research so that he then can cite to this Wikipedia article in a personal letter writing campaign to Royal Dutch Shell. Among the many policies this violates, *** Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought, *** Wikipedia is not a soapbox, and  *** Wikipedia is not a battleground *** come to mind. By adhering to the GA requirement that a topic is to stay focused without going into unnecessary details, and the requirement that only material that is independent of the subject be used in an article, this topic could be covered adequately within the Royal Dutch Shell article. -- Jreferee    t / c  16:16, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment You are aware that we have mechanisms for a proposed merge beyond *fD, right? Is the nom actually calling for deletion? Also, doesn't half of the nom basically negate WP:SPLIT? OR should be removed, but most of the article is well sourced. If you'd prefer they be so tightly focused in pursuit of GA status, then split the events into other articles (lord knows it's well past what's called for by WP:LENGTH, and always has been) and/or merge the strongly sourced points to the (already large) parent article. AfD seems like an odd place to bring this up. MrZaius  talk  16:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:POVFORK, WP:OR, WP:SOAP, and WP:BATTLE. STORMTRACKER   94  17:20, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:OR does not apply to vast tracts of this very long article, and many individual incidents documented in the article carry no POV concerns, covering, as they do, only well-known issues that are thouroughly documented by reliable, verifiable sources. Please be more specific and explain how deletion is preferable to a cleanup and/or split. MrZaius  talk  17:53, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete per Stormtracker94 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Russavia (talk • contribs) 17:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. This is one of the most controversial companies in the world. The reasons for that require more space than they could be afforded in the parent article. Many users have contributed here. Donovan's editing is transparent as he edits under his own name. In the email, he's not pretending the information is independent of him. Lapsed Pacifist 18:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Neutrality problems can be fixed. Article is sourced, and a natural spinoff from parent article. Mandsford 21:13, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * keep Article problems can be fixed; POV deletions are more difficult to deal with and they disrupt the work of WP editors. Having 'controversy' articles regarding problems that corporate/other entities have gotten themselves into is a good way to split up articles that are otherwise too long Hmains 00:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Issues of neutrality and OR can be fixed &mdash; enough reliable sources exist to write a neutral and balanced article, and content forking is justified on the basis of (i) the sheer size and historical importance of Shell and (ii) the fact that these controversies are independently notable. We don't delete sourced material on notable controversies simply because a company generates so much controversy; "excessive detail" should only be invoked to trim insignificant detail, which this is not. Thomjakobsen 01:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletions.   -- Gavin Collins 09:08, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment from nominator - In regards to the keep remarks made above, the handful of editors who have made edits to a topic supposedly about 'one of the most controversial companies in the world,' only one editor has more than 25 edits to the article. Johnadonovan has made 198 edits to the article. The next highest number of edits is 22, then 17, then 5, then 4, 3, 2, and mostly 1. See Wikipedia stats. More space is used than needed because of the failure to only use and cite to independent, third party reliable source material and the failure to stay focused on the topic without going into unnecessary details. The article largely does not cite sources nor could it since most of the material added is original research. Disliking Royal Dutch Shell is not a basis to throw out Wikipedia's standards to allow a free-for-all disparagement of Royal Dutch Shell. This POV fork needs to be deleted. -- Jreferee    t / c  19:21, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Please respond to the point made above concerning the large sections that discuss specific events and controversies that would plainly meet WP:NOTE if forked off. I've only ever performed the most cosmetic of cleanups on this article, and am not terribly interested in the subject matter, but I can still see some value in covering those events that plainly meet WP:NOTE. The OR that you mention should be removed. Again, seems more like grounds for cleanup than deletion. MrZaius  talk  20:12, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. The fact that one editor has (allegedly) made a large number of bad edits is not a deletion argument. Additionally, much of it does seem sourced, although it's been done as external links inserted directly into the text rather than proper inline cites. More of a style issue though. Thomjakobsen 20:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.