Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Controversy of the Born This Way Ball (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to Born This Way Ball.  MBisanz  talk 00:27, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Controversy of the Born This Way Ball
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(Note: I considered taking this to a noticeboard for wider discussion, but there's an interlocking set of problems here that make neither N/N nor NPOVN the right place.)

Sources do not support the notability of this "controversy" as an event separate from Lady Gaga's tour as a whole. Looking superficially at the reflist, it's easy to believe that the news coverage supports this spin-out, but in fact, looking at the coverage of the tour as a whole, coverage of the controversy forms only a small part of it. Nor does it appear to have had any lasting WP:EFFECT or WP:PERSISTENCE of coverage.

As well, it's kind of a problem that this is essentially a well-formatted attack article, composed largely of publicity quotes from the performer's opponents. The better place to discuss this "controversy" is in a sentence or two in the article on the tour, where it can be properly contextualized within the response as a whole. –Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 02:53, 22 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Strong keep. It's notable enough outside of the scope of the tour. "A sentence of two" in the tour article doesn't cut it. There a plenty of "Controversy of" articles, they aren't attack articles, they are articles of, you guessed, controversy of something. — Statυs  ( talk,  contribs ) 02:59, 22 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge to Born This Way Ball. This is really the report of events concerning one show.  To me that seems to be against the "not news" policy.  There also could be an article like "Lady Gaga controversy" or "Criticism of Lady Gaga."  But I don't think we should have articles like this on every one of her tours. Kitfoxxe (talk) 04:50, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't realize that a single show could take place in South Korea, the Philippines and Indonesia. There are no other articles about controversy of her tours, just one. Step back from your crystal ball for a second there. We are discussing this article, nothing more. — Statυs  ( talk,  contribs ) 05:27, 22 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep The topic of the article, as exposed from the large amout of coverage of each controversy, is defined. In my personal opinion, I don't overly see a breach of WP:NOTNEWS: That would be the case of a single controversy within the whole tour. Here, we have a set of several controversies that are the direct consequence of a recurrent factor: her performance within the context of the tour. Although, I am pretty sure that such controversies would have also existed aside the context of the tour, because Gaga herself is a point of controversy. Therefore, this can be easily explained at a separate article wich aviods to have a large portion on the main tour article about this, and each section there is given due weigh in space there. It also allows the needed space to elaborate in detail. — ΛΧΣ  21  05:33, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:07, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:07, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:07, 22 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge The material can and should be presented in the main article. The purpose in splitting would seem to be an effort to document it in excessive detail.&mdash;Kww(talk) 20:41, 22 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Stong keep - several notable persons including terrorist linked groups, religious leaders, legislators and heads of nations are involved and quoted. Notable human rights groups point to the events as having continued significance. Reliable and notable newspapers covered the events. Merging this with the article about the tour itself, which covers artistic and performance information, would overwhelm and unbalance that article.--Wowaconia (talk) 21:14, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Readers looking at this comment should note that the claim about human rights groups pointing to the event as having continued significance is, as explained exhaustively on the talk page, false. –Roscelese (talk &sdot; contribs) 21:16, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I maintain that editor Roscelese has a "unique" reading of the wiki-standards and I find her definition on the word "event" puzzling, so I also encourage people to review the discussion page. A human rights worker does cite the ban of the tour in a critique of the President of Indonesia's failure to act for freedom of speech, another human rights worker cited the ban when discussing the rise of militant political Islam. A disagreement between editors has arisen on whether the controversy and the ban can be seen as events or effects - as the Wikipedia standard speaks of "An event".--Wowaconia (talk) 21:45, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Courcelles 00:27, 29 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. Passes notability and has enough referenced content to warrant a standalone article. 1292simon (talk) 00:41, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge - no need for separate article, encyclopedic content can be covered in main article. -- No  unique  names  06:38, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge per WP:UNDUE and WP:NOT: "Discussion of isolated events, criticisms, or news reports about a subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic." Any important facts can be merged into the main article in the appropriate section, there is no need for a whole bulk of information that breaches Wikipedia's WP:NOT policy and gives undue weight to the topic in question. Till  08:39, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Obvious Merge to Born This Way Ball. Wikipedia is not a newspaper. This is just a  report of events concerning a single show. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉  22:49, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Quoting myself above, "I didn't realize that a single show could take place in South Korea, the Philippines and Indonesia." — Statυs  ( talk,  contribs ) 23:17, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.