Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Conversion of John Randolph of Roanoke


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   merge to John Randolph of Roanoke. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 00:23, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Conversion of John Randolph of Roanoke

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This article exists largely as a refutation to a flash-in-the-pan claim that Randolph was a Muslim. The notion is below even fringe, as it seems to be the politically excitable overinterpreting a slightly dubious statement; the evidence is overwhelmingly against it. What we have in the referenced article is gross overkill, a mixture of WP:UNDUE and WP:OR. The truth seems to be that Randolph's conversion experience in 1818 wasn't really notable; it occupies about ten pages of a seven hundred page biography which itself consists largely of quotations from Randolph's letters. I have already salvaged what I think is of importance and included it in the main article. Mangoe (talk) 15:37, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Clarification: To summarize the controversy: David Barton made a remark in a rather rambling article which an unwary writer at the Washington Times overstated; that then briefly flashed around the blogosphere. I've already given that the succinct refutation it deserves in the the main article. What we are left with is a WP:COATRACK, because most of the article isn't about that; it's a long IMO WP:OR discursus on Randolph's religion which doesn't pay a lot of attention to the conversion incident either. Mangoe (talk) 16:26, 6 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge. This seems to have entered the media because fundamentalist Christian writer claimed that Keith Ellison was not the first Muslim to be elected to Congress . He said that John Randolph was, and that he was converted to Christianity when he recognised God's Truth. The story circulated on the internet and in the mainstream media until it was shown to be nonsense. That's about it. It's not worth a full length article. Randolph was swept up the early 19th century "great awakening", as were many people. Paul B (talk) 16:10, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - per nom. The idea that Randolph was at any time Muslim is pattent nonsense. To have an article devoted to debunking this idea gives undue weight to the idea itself. I would have advised merging the material on Randolph's shifting religiosity into the main bio... but Mangoe seems to have taken care of that (ie the material is already merged). Blueboar (talk) 16:23, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge back into parent article per WP:COAT, WP:UNDUE and WP:FRINGE. Bearian (talk) 21:12, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete The claim that Randolph was a Muslim is not supported by serious scholarship. Pastor Theo (talk) 22:44, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Merge The article deals not with his conversion to be a Muslim, which is indeed not based on any good evidence, but his religion in general. Given that the material is in the blogosphere, we might as well explain this right. The paragraph in the main article could use expansion i, and this article can be used for the purpose, though obviously not in anything like this detail. Since the "conversion:" in this sense can mean reawakening to Christianity, it is a usable search term for the redirect. DGG (talk) 00:28, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: To clarify, DGG is correct in saying that the articles is not about his conversion to be a Muslim... what the article is about (according to the lead) is his supposed conversion from Islam to Christianity ... I think the main objection here is over the idea that he was a Muslim to begin with... that is a rejected WP:Fringe concept. If there is more material on his religious views in general that should be merged into, or exported to, the main article, please do so. Blueboar (talk) 13:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge back to John Randolph of Roanoke per WP:FRINGE. Article also seems to have a fair bit of WP:OR in it.  Lankiveil (speak to me) 00:09, 12 April 2009 (UTC).


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.