Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Convert's Cognitive Development Framework


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  21:51, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Convert's Cognitive Development Framework

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The subject of this article appears to be a concept pioneered and promoted by exactly one lecturer, academic, practitioner and terrorism expert with over 25 years experience in the field of radicalization, but despite this there's nothing on Google Scholar for the subject and Dr. Abdul Haqq Baker appears with a very modest amount of citations, enough to confirm that what he writes ends up on Google scholar, but not enough to establish significant influence. Claims that this concept is currently "in use" appear to be entirely OR, although the sources do establish that Dr. Abdul Haqq Baker is employed on certain government programs in the UK and was consulted in a US court case. Does not meet WP:GNG. signed,Rosguill talk 06:02, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment the best way to deal with this draft was expose it to other editors in mainspace Legacypac (talk) 06:09, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Correct, the Convert's Cognitive Development Framework is a proposal pioneered by Dr. Baker. However, as the article stated it was used my the American Criminal Justice System as a guideline for determining the extremism level of convicted felon Jamie Paulin-Ramirez. This framework was explained and broadcast nationally during a the full day lecture given at the Washington D.C. Newseum. The program "Effectively Countering Extremism: A Comprehensive Grassroots Approach was nationally televised on C-Span, C-Span radio and abcnews.com. Due to the application of this framework Dr. Baker has also spoke at the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime in Astana, Kazakhstan on November 22-23, 2017 and at the United Nations – Counter Terrorism Committee Strasbourg, France April 19 -21, 2011 on the same topic. It appears that his expertise and published works in this field are recognized internationally. Ddstellito (talk) 07:34, 2 November 2018 (UTC)ddstellitoDdstellito (talk) 07:34, 2 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Philosophy-related deletion discussions. Thsmi002 (talk) 11:28, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. Thsmi002 (talk) 11:28, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Islam-related deletion discussions. Thsmi002 (talk) 11:28, 2 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete WP:OR and no significant coverage to satisfy WP:GNG. Polyamorph (talk) 09:53, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

I am still new to the Wikipedia community and open to any suggested edits that need to made to this article so that it meets the Wikapedia criteria. While conducting my research I came across numerous news and research articles on converts and how they are susceptible to radicalization,. , . I then later came across this theoretical framework and thought it would be highly useful. Ddstellito (talk) 10:49, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

There are several issues pointed out to be wrong with this article. Please allow me a few days to get them addressed.Ddstellito (talk) 10:49, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

User Polyamorph has provided me a link to Wikipedia:Notability guidelines. Please allow me a few days to see if this article can meet the expected guidelines. Ddstellito (talk) 10:58, 6 November 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor 13:45, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

I have gathered a few edits that speak to the notoriety of Dr. Baker and his theories. I hope to have them posted in the next 48 hours. I hope they meet the communities requirements. Ddstellito (talk) 08:29, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Significant changes have been made to the opening of the article to show it's notoriety as it has been sought out by many international organizations such as the United Nstions. If I may also add, one of the theory's that I've found very helpful in my studies is securitization theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitization_(international_relations). However, I am still looking for the notoriety info on that posting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ddstellito (talk • contribs) 04:39, 12 November 2018 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 (talk) 12:04, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete or Userfy The article is a mess and while I have found some discussion of this, I don't think it's enough. Oddly however, I think it is possible that man behind this theory may be notable. He is a frequently cited and published expert on the subject of Islamic terrorism. I was somewhat surprised that we don't have an article on him. If we did I'd probably support a redirect from this title to Abdul Haqq Baker. (hint hint) -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:13, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Userfy (or draftify), with a strong recommendation that this be converted into a draft biography of Abdul Haqq Baker, with the framework as a subsection of that biography. The biographical subject is reasonably well-covered:  bd2412  T 14:13, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete. This reads as an essay.  If it's moved to draft, I suspect it would need a total rewrite (i.e. WP:TNT).
 * I'm mystified at 's coment, the best way to deal with this draft was expose it to other editors in mainspace. Surely, if AfC is not cleanup, then moving a draft to mainspace isn't cleanup either.  -- RoySmith (talk) 03:18, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If there is no clear cut reason to decline a draft intended for mainspace, there is no problem exposing it to more editors. Some pages get greatly expanded and improved while others end up deleted after a wider review. This is one of those edge cases where a single AfC reviewer is not well placed to decide the fate of the page for all time. Legacypac (talk) 03:22, 26 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep but perhaps move to the creator's name. His work is clearly gaining traction and is in use, so the title is a logical redirect to his name for now. Racadicalization remains an important topic in national security. Evidently this theory is an attempt to understand it. I don't see how this is WP:OR since the page creator did not make this up, just collected material about where the topic is discussed, same as any other good page. Legacypac (talk) 03:27, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
 * There's OR in assuming that the cognitive model was implemented/used on a given project just because RS say that Dr. Baker was employed on said project without mentioning the cognitive model in their coverage. signed,Rosguill talk 18:01, 27 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep. The study is as relevant as Dr. Abdul Haqq Baker, who can very well have his own article, as he would qualify per WP:ACADEMIC. With this edit I cleaned up the parts that talk exclusively about Dr. Abdul Haqq Baker, which are not very relevant for the article and should be used in his potential article. I also added a lead to summarize the content. Last, perhaps the move from Convert's Cognitive Development Framework to Muslim Convert Cognitive Development Framework would be more descriptive, but this is another matter. --1l2l3k (talk) 14:33, 27 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.