Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Coq Rouge (novel)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Carl Hamilton novels. No need for a "merge" close, as the material has already been merged. — Mr. Stradivarius  (have a chat) 08:54, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Coq Rouge (novel)

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Has no visible verifiable references from reliable sources. Contested PROD. —  Jeff G. ツ (talk)   00:47, 30 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 18:18, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 18:18, 1 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge/Redirect to Carl Hamilton novels. The first of 13 very popular novels in Sweden and other Germanic languages featuring the character Carl Hamilton. The novels include:


 * Coq Rouge (1986)
 * The Democratic Terrorist (1987)
 * I nationens intresse (1988)
 * Enemy's Enemy (1989)
 * Den hedervärde mördaren (1990)
 * Vendetta (1991)
 * Ingen mans land (1992)
 * Den enda segern (1993)
 * I hennes majestäts tjänst (1994)
 * En medborgare höjd över varje misstanke (1995)
 * Hamlon (1996)
 * Madame Terror (2006)
 * Men inte om det gäller din dotter (2008)


 * According to Culture and Customs of Sweden (Byron J. Nordstrom, 2010, pg. 104) these books "..place him besides John le Carre and Len Deighton" (famous British spy novelists). The New Encyclopædia Britannica: Micropædia called it a "best-selling series". In Europe, Issue 343 the character Carl Hamilton is called "Sweden's James Bond" and the novel Coq Rouge is "Jan Guillou's.. first significant work of fiction".


 * Given all this, there is no doubt this book received at least two significant reviews when it was published in 1986, likely dozens, as popular books usually do. Since it was in Sweden nearly 30 years ago, it's going to be very difficult to dig these up online. One would probably need to travel to Sweden, enter a library, and look through microfiche. Or possibly if some major newspapers had archives online. I did look through commercial databases and found the book mentioned in 5 Swedish/Dutch/German sources (all newspapers) in the past 3 years (older records not available). I don't speak the languages and they are images so can't be run through Google translate. Cites for these:
 * NRC Handelsblad, 13 Jul 2012. Pages 40 - 41
 * Sydsvenskan, 30 Oct 2011. p.88
 * Der Standard, 21 Mar 2011. p.25
 * Dagens Nyheter Weekend, 4 Jul 2010. p.66
 * Sydsvenskan, 20 Jun 2010. p.35


 * -- Green Cardamom (talk) 23:43, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: It might be better to write an article for the overall series. Sometimes books can become so overwhelmingly notable that they inherit notability suitable enough to have their own article, but those instances are fairly rare and in these instances the individual volumes usually have a ton of individual sources as is in the case of the Harry Potter series. Of course as you've noted, the biggest issue here is time, as many of the reviews and articles for the individual books were done pre-Internet and in foreign languages, which makes them less likely to be found on the net.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 10:18, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There already is a series article Carl Hamilton (fictional character). It would be fine idea to rename that article to Carl Hamilton novels or something and merge in the four individual book articles which are mostly lacking sources and stubby plot summaries. If someone then wanted to expand a book it could be split off from the main article when the length and sourcing justifies a standalone article. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 14:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment I went ahead and merged all the Carl Hamilton content into a single article Carl Hamilton novels. If there is objection we can take it up on the talk pages, or here. I left Coq Rouge as-is since it is currently under an AfD, but the content is now in the series article. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 16:08, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Carl Hamilton novels, per GC. There's enough there to show notability for the series and as sources can be found, we can work on giving the individual books their own articles once there are enough.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 04:45, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, BusterD (talk) 05:58, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment. Since this has already been merged to the article on the series I would suggest that it can be redirected and the discussion closed. I don't see any reason to continue this. --Michig (talk) 18:08, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep (by which I mean, unmerge this and each of them. There is enough information in the Swedish articles to be translated into corresponding English ones. This particular book meets one of the basic criteria, having been made into a film.  DGG ( talk ) 04:35, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Just looked at se . The problem is films have to be notable to make the book notable. Not to say it couldn't be done, but there is no article here (for the film Code Name Coq Rouge) and no sourcing in the Swedish film article (and no sources in the Swedish novel article). If there was an article for Code Name Coq Rouge with sourcing to est. notability, that would change my vote in the AfD. Same for the other novels that have films. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 05:54, 15 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment: merging per GC works for me.  —  Jeff G. ツ  (talk)   03:32, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Consensus quickly developing around merge. Close and merge. --Batard0 (talk) 20:53, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.